Pulled over in Brier Creek...durr

Like an idiot I forgot to update my registration and get inspected (Brand new BMW, I just simply didn't realize I owned it for a year!) and The weapon was in the back seat with the slide locked back and the magazine in the front under a two step style box to get the ammo). The LEO didn't even care to look to see the gun open displayed until I told him it was there.

I was asked to grab the weapon with one hand by the butt and hand it to him which I did as told and he took it back with him to give me my warning and then put the gun in the trunk and I drove 20' to my garage.

No issues there and the cops didn't freak out.

[video=youtube;FQ6kMWA2WRk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ6kMWA2WRk[/video]

I'm sorry, perhaps I am not getting your point with this guys not to funny stand up?

RobertPA said:

...I was asked to grab the weapon....

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It related to this part of your story. Quite well, too.

I would politely refuse. If he wants me out of my vehicle so he can go get it, that's up to him.

But this is NOT to say what you should have done. Every situation and cop is different and only the guy at the stop can decide how cooperative he wants to be to try for a warning instead of a ticket. You apparently made the right call.

RobertPA said:

I'm sorry, perhaps I am not getting your point with this guys not to funny stand up?

Click to expand...

My point was, I would never touch a gun, unloaded or loaded, when an officer is around.

The way I see it, it's best if the gun stays where it is.

If a officer is concerned for his safety, and wants to take possession of my gun(s) while I'm being detained, he's going to be the one touching it.

I don't want some nervous cop shooting me because of some unforeseen, or startling, thing that happened while trying to retrieve my gun to give to him.

In a situation where an officer wants to retrieve my gun, I'll probably do my best to make sure an officer doesn't. I'll try to talk him out of it and convince him that the gun isn't a threat.

If the officer does retrieve the gun himself, and it's loaded, the cop will, most likely, take the mag out and unchamber the round in the pipe. I have no clue if the officer knows the controls of my particular gun and how it works. I have no clue if he/she even knows firearm safety. Going to the range to qualify every now or then doesn't make one proficient and knowledgeable in firearm safety.

If you read the stories on here about detentions where cops temporarily seize open carriers' guns, then you know there seems to be a chance that you may get muzzled during the unloading process, increasing the chances of you being shot with your own gun.

Though, in your case, the cop didn't seem to have a problem with you handling a noticeably unloaded firearm. I'm glad everything went OK. As you may see in this thread or others, a lot of us prefer to not touch or handle firearms while people with badges and guns, who work for the government, are around.

If it were me in your situation, I would have refused to touch my firearm and told the officer that the firearm is not a safety concern, especially since it was all the way in the back seat with the action open and no mag in it.

It sounded like the cop either just wanted to be a d*%k, or he thought you might use the gun on him.

Presuming you opened the trunk for the officer to put your gun there - you gave him permission thereby to visually search your trunk. :uhoh:

I think it was the President of VCDL, who related the incident where a cop asked a driver to get the gun from the glove box and hand it over during a traffic stop. The problem was the cop's partner standing at the passenger side who didn't hear the conversation because of traffic, and only saw a driver reaching into a glove box for a gun. The driver did not survive the passenger-side cop's reaction.

Ok, I see your valid points now! I was assuming that people were wanting to be jerks and making their life more difficult; however, I can see where the complications can arise in a traffic stop. Working as a contractor for a city and dealing with a PD I know these were the people who got C's and D's in school so I really don't trust their judgement all that much.

I literally had to talk OVER him to advise him there was a gun in the car because he wanted to ramble on about my registration and inspection. When I decide to carry it concealed I won't put it in the glove box for the very reason mentioned. In fact, I had plans on fashioning a custom holster in the BMW and the Mini Cooper to where I can place the weapon in a convenient yet somewhat concealed location away from paperwork that I would normally need.

I think this royally sucks that we have to take this many precuations because we've become a society afriad of the very right that helped us defend ourselves againt tyrannic governments. I can somewhat understand his need to feel safe; however, I was in a $50,000 car wearing clothes worth more than all the gear on his body including his watch; thus, I think the probablility of me being a threat is nill. Two options:


1. Make a dumb decision against a LEO and end up in a --Mod deleted verbiage-- prison

2. Just agree with the near high school dropout, take said ticket/warning, drive away and hire a lawyer if I got a ticket and then enjoy the amenities in life I can afford because I made smart decisions in life.

Then again, there are the exceptions. If I have my gun in the car I won't argue and I'll move along; however, if I am not armed then please believe I am going to make them work for their paycheck by questioning everything and making them repeat themselves ad nauseam.

RobertPA said:

Ok, I see your valid points now! I was assuming that people were wanting to be jerks and making their life more difficult; however, I can see where the complications can arise in a traffic stop. Working as a contractor for a city and dealing with a PD I know these were the people who got C's and D's in school so I really don't trust their judgement all that much.

I literally had to talk OVER him to advise him there was a gun in the car because he wanted to ramble on about my registration and inspection. When I decide to carry it concealed I won't put it in the glove box for the very reason mentioned. In fact, I had plans on fashioning a custom holster in the BMW and the Mini Cooper to where I can place the weapon in a convenient yet somewhat concealed location away from paperwork that I would normally need.

I think this royally sucks that we have to take this many precuations because we've become a society afriad of the very right that helped us defend ourselves againt tyrannic governments. I can somewhat understand his need to feel safe; however, I was in a $50,000 car wearing clothes worth more than all the gear on his body including his watch; thus, I think the probablility of me being a threat is nill. Two options:


1. Make a dumb decision against a LEO and end up in a --Mod deleted verbiage-- prison

2. Just agree with the near high school dropout, take said ticket/warning, drive away and hire a lawyer if I got a ticket and then enjoy the amenities in life I can afford because I made smart decisions in life.

Then again, there are the exceptions. If I have my gun in the car I won't argue and I'll move along; however, if I am not armed then please believe I am going to make them work for their paycheck by questioning everything and making them repeat themselves ad nauseam.

Click to expand...

I'm a little perplexed by your rationale. You would seem to equate the value of personal possessions to the potential threat level - at the least very elitist. How would that work with a gang-banger wearing jewelry worth twice your vehicle?

Your reference to "near high school dropout" continues in the same vain. The right to self-defense recognizes no educational level and your remark borders on a rule violation. BTW - you might consider Spell Check to maintain your more educated image.

If I have my gun in my car (always do) I am going to respond the same way each time with only minor variances.

Grapeshot said:

I'm a little perplexed by your rationale. You would seem to equate the value of personal possessions to the potential threat level - at the least very elitist. How would that work with a gang-banger wearing jewelry worth twice your vehicle?

Your reference to "near high school dropout" continues in the same vain. The right to self-defense recognizes no educational level and your remark borders on a rule violation. BTW - you might consider Spell Check to maintain your more educated image.

If I have my gun in my car (always do) I am going to respond the same way each time with only minor variances.

Click to expand...

Elitist, maybe.

In the area where I was stopped, Brier Creek, you are about as likely to find a "gang banger" as you would oil in water spout. It would make just as much sense to assume that I am threat if I were cruising down Worth Avenue in Palm Beach. Both areas have low crime rates and high incomes which, by way of statistics, generally means that a LEO is less likely to encounter deadly resistance on a traffic stop than he would if he were to pull over someone off South Saunders Street in downtown Raleigh, NC or a suspect off Tamarind Avenue in West Palm Beach, Florida.

My remark towards LEOs having less than stellar education levels I will personally defend because I work with them on a daily basis and that is a rule, not the exception. When you have to search file upon file for specific words to help them isolate what report is what from X number of years ago, only to find they misspell even the most common two syllable words you might develop an opinion.

Also, please use complete words if you're going to make a comment about spelling errors. "BTW" is not a word, perhaps you're trying to say "By the way" of which you aren't using intial capitialization. I won't get into an online debate with you in regards to my rationale versus yours because you are the one attempting to impose your will on me, not the other way around. Each person is entitled to their own thoughts, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

Grapeshot said:

Presuming you opened the trunk for the officer to put your gun there - you gave him permission thereby to visually search your trunk. :uhoh:

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And if I have nothing to hide, what do I have to lose? Are you stating I should turn on the "Mr. Stand Up for Freedom" rhetoric and make life more difficult for me? Oh lord, he is going to see the small stash of 7.62x54r in a clear container that clearly doesn't fit the gun he is putting in my trunk and perhaps he'll recognize some of the logical network maps back there as well on Arch A size paper.

I get the impression you're very likely to defecate where you eat making your own life miserable. Why would I want the LEO to mark me as "that guy" and make myself more susceptible to traffic stops or make the valid stop he made last longer for myself and bother my neighbors with the strobe lights shining through their windows? One isolated incident of me "standing up for my rights" isn't going to make one single difference in society, I am not Rosa Parks living in a retarded period of American history defending BASIC human rights and standing up against discrimination against something I had no choice over. No one likes to be challenged, especially law enforcement; however, we ALL do it. Some of us will push the envelope a little farther than the other in respect to handing a LEO when it comes to open carrying either in public on foot or while on a traffic stop. If you're going to change something why not do it from the inside and get more closely involved with government decision making rather than yelling at the LEOs in the field who have no control over it. No single person in a position of power is going to align themselves with a person who is a loud mouth because attention isn't always the most effective means of changing something. I quickly learned to navigate the BS in the corporate world and more recently government to get things changed based upon logic, not politics; however, unlike the ones before me, I didn't complain and cry about it...I played their game.

RobertPA said:

--snip--

Also, please use complete words if you're going to make a comment about spelling errors. "BTW" is not a word, perhaps you're trying to say "By the way" of which you aren't using intial capitialization. I won't get into an online debate with you in regards to my rationale versus yours because you are the one attempting to impose your will on me, not the other way around. Each person is entitled to their own thoughts, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

Click to expand...

BTW is recognized internet shorthand and accepted here.

I do not engage in online debate, but I will point out that this is not a free speech zone - OCDO is private property. I do redirect softly when I can and more vigorously when needed. The first test is whether any of the Forum Rules are violated. After that comes the spirit and intent of OCDO as viewed by a very large and diverse group beyond those registered here - maintaining a good public image is important.

To be candid while you seem pro self-defense, an elitist attitude does not fit well with our desired image of just normal, everyday people OCing as they go about their daily business. No one demographic group is held in higher esteem than another.

Hope you will accept this in the spirit intended.

RobertPA said:

And if I have nothing to hide, what do I have to lose? Are you stating I should turn on the "Mr. Stand Up for Freedom" rhetoric and make life more difficult for me? Oh lord, he is going to see the small stash of 7.62x54r in a clear container that clearly doesn't fit the gun he is putting in my trunk and perhaps he'll recognize some of the logical network maps back there as well on Arch A size paper.

I get the impression you're very likely to defecate where you eat making your own life miserable. Why would I want the LEO to mark me as "that guy" and make myself more susceptible to traffic stops or make the valid stop he made last longer for myself and bother my neighbors with the strobe lights shining through their windows? One isolated incident of me "standing up for my rights" isn't going to make one single difference in society, I am not Rosa Parks living in a retarded period of American history defending BASIC human rights and standing up against discrimination against something I had no choice over. No one likes to be challenged, especially law enforcement; however, we ALL do it. Some of us will push the envelope a little farther than the other in respect to handing a LEO when it comes to open carrying either in public on foot or while on a traffic stop. If you're going to change something why not do it from the inside and get more closely involved with government decision making rather than yelling at the LEOs in the field who have no control over it. No single person in a position of power is going to align themselves with a person who is a loud mouth because attention isn't always the most effective means of changing something. I quickly learned to navigate the BS in the corporate world and more recently government to get things changed based upon logic, not politics; however, unlike the ones before me, I didn't complain and cry about it...I played their game.

Click to expand...

First and most importantly, I take the blue, bolded sentence as a personal insult. We discuss facts here and do not personalize opinions of other people - you crossed a line with that one. Strongly recommend you do not do that again.

Virtually all good attorneys recommend not voluntarily/consensually allowing searches of person or vehicles - there is much to loose and nothing to be gained.

LEOs do have control over much of what happens in the field. Such polite refusal to capitulate does not imply "yelling" of being a "loud mouth."

Each person must decide for themselves what works for them in each situation. As for me it is not a game, it is an avocation - active in what is arguably the best grassroots organization in the country ( VCDL), work with local and state government to improve our laws, OC daily w/o apology, and contribute as I may on this forum.

RobertPA said:

snip... My remark towards LEOs having less than stellar education levels I will personally defend because I work with them on a daily basis and that is a rule, not the exception. When you have to search file upon file for specific words to help them isolate what report is what from X number of years ago, only to find they misspell even the most common two syllable words you might develop an opinion. snip...

Click to expand...

BTW RobertPA, I'm truly sorry you are forced to lower your standards where you have to work w/those you believe are below your perceived economic status as well as your exemplary educational level. I can imagine what a tremendous burden it must be on those poor souls who have to endure daily, direct contact as you exhibit what must be your obvious contempt for them.

wabbit

For whatever it is worth to you, here are my attorney's instructions:


Note that my attorney's contact information is on the final version.

http://edsfiles.us/pics/hawescard.jpg

I just tell them to ask me any questions in court .... that gets them jumping up and down most of the time