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Thread: Need Help - transportation of handgun ? - state law question

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    Need Help - transportation of handgun ? - state law question

    Wondering the following (prep for an upcoming case):

    In your state that has a permitting system for carry of handgun (looking for states outside my own):

    1) can you transport your HANDGUN in a vehicle (trunk or otherwise) without a permit for the following purposes:
    a) to go to a range to practice
    b) to go to a gunsmith for repair

    I would need state law citations (links would be great) or case law regarding these two subjects ...

    In my state, you don't need a permit to transport a handgun to a gunsmith BUT its covered under an exception .. and the law does not require the state to show that a gun is functioning to obtain a conviction & an exception is an affirmative defense (which I believe creates an undue burden on a handgun owner under the 2nd amendment)...so if I can compare other state law it may be useful ... my state statue below

    CGS 29-35 "...revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-26-2012 at 12:58 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Nevada

    Nevada has no restrictions on firearms in vehicles except a long gun may not have an unexpended cartridge in the chamber. -Nevada Revised Statutes 503.165

    Firearms may be openly visible anywhere in the vehicle.

    Firearms may be concealed anywhere in the vehicle not on a person. -NRS 202.350
    A Concealed Weapons Permit is only needed to conceal on a person.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-26-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...looking for states outside my own...
    You are among those who find it somehow humorous to say things like "earth's crust" in your profile location...
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-26-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Utah

    UCA (Utah Code, Annotated) 76-10-505
    Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street

    This law only prohibits carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle without consent of the person in possession of the vehicle.

    Even an 18-year-old can carry a loaded and concealed (or open) handgun anywhere in their vehicle, including upon their person (while in the vehicle). No permit required.

    The CCW permit in UT is only necessary on public streets (when not in a vehicle with permission).
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Nevada has no restrictions on firearms in vehicles except a long gun may not have an unexpended cartridge in the chamber. -Nevada Revised Statutes 503.165

    Firearms may be openly visible anywhere in the vehicle.

    Firearms may be concealed anywhere in the vehicle not on a person. -NRS 202.350
    A Concealed Weapons Permit is only needed to conceal on a person.
    Thats a good one ... looks like no prohibition (other than to carry) on the issue of transportation of a handgun in a vehicle ...

    Does not look like NV sees any safety issue involved with the mere transportation of a handgun ..

    Its one I'll cite... thanks

    NRS 202.287 Discharging firearm within or from structure or vehicle; penalties. seems to deal with shooting out of a vehicle..

    NRS 202.265 Possession of dangerous weapon on property or in vehicle of school or child care facility; penalty; exceptions. seems to limit gun in vehicle on school property

    NRS 202.300 Use or possession of firearm by child under age of 18 years; unlawful to aid or permit child to commit violation; penalties; child 14 years of age or older authorized to possess firearm under certain circumstances. limiting possession of gun to kids in vehicle

    https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...l#NRS202Sec350
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-26-2012 at 04:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    UCA (Utah Code, Annotated) 76-10-505
    Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street

    This law only prohibits carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle without consent of the person in possession of the vehicle.

    Even an 18-year-old can carry a loaded and concealed (or open) handgun anywhere in their vehicle, including upon their person (while in the vehicle). No permit required.

    The CCW permit in UT is only necessary on public streets (when not in a vehicle with permission).
    http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050500.htm ( 76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.)

    This one is interesting ... in CT a person from out of state may have in a vehicle an unloaded gun BUT the courts have ruled that this is not a necessary element that the state needs to prove to get a conviction (in fact, the only elements needed to be proved is that a firearm is in the vehicle and that the occupant(s) do not have a permit -- heck, the state does not even have to prove the gun is functional or that it's barrel length actually meets the length requirements of a handgun !)

    So, this maybe something to cite...I'll look up the case law in Utah ... thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    You are among those who find it somehow humorous to say things like "earth's crust" in your profile location...
    Captain Kirk would be able to easily find me with the information I provided ...

    Live long and prosper !

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Captain Kirk would be able to easily find me with the information I provided ...
    "able to" and "should have to" are not the same thing.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...NRS 202.287 Discharging firearm within or from structure or vehicle; penalties. seems to deal with shooting out of a vehicle..

    NRS 202.265 Possession of dangerous weapon on property or in vehicle of school or child care facility; penalty; exceptions. seems to limit gun in vehicle on school property

    NRS 202.300 Use or possession of firearm by child under age of 18 years; unlawful to aid or permit child to commit violation; penalties; child 14 years of age or older authorized to possess firearm under certain circumstances. limiting possession of gun to kids in vehicle

    https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...l#NRS202Sec350
    Yes, I only wrote about possession of firearms related to the vehicle, not shooting them; and I did not address schools and other prohibited places that are in effect whether you are in a vehicle or not. Worth nothing, though.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Wondering the following (prep for an upcoming case):

    In your state that has a permitting system for carry of handgun (looking for states outside my own):

    1) can you transport your HANDGUN in a vehicle (trunk or otherwise) without a permit for the following purposes:
    a) to go to a range to practice
    b) to go to a gunsmith for repair

    O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126
    Having or carrying handguns, long guns, or other weapons; license requirement; exceptions for homes, motor vehicles, and other locations and conditions; penalties for violations

    (c) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry any handgun provided that it is enclosed in a case and unloaded.

    (d) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun who is eligible for a weapons carry license may transport a handgun or long gun in any private passenger motor vehicle; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135.


    Transportation, without limit as to where or for what purpose, is legal as long as unloaded and encased. "Encased" isn't defined but a closed container, or even a zipped up 'gun rug' seems to meet the requirements.

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    WA RCW 9.41.050 (restrictions) RCW 9.41.060 (exceptions). WA allows OC without a license, Open and concealed carry without a license under exception RCW 9.41.060 (most commonly used exception is (8).

    OR. ORS 166.250 (restrictions) ORS 166.260 (exceptions) OR loaded unlicensed OC except in certain cities that have taken advantage of ORS 166.173 that restrict UNLICENSED LOADED OC. you can still OC, unloaded in these cities. (like Portland)

    Licensed OC or CC anywhere with total state pre-emption.

    ID, read Idaho State Supreme Court Decision "in re Brickley" 1902 read it here: http://www.guncite.com/court/state/70p609.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126
    Having or carrying handguns, long guns, or other weapons; license requirement; exceptions for homes, motor vehicles, and other locations and conditions; penalties for violations

    (c) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry any handgun provided that it is enclosed in a case and unloaded.

    (d) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun who is eligible for a weapons carry license may transport a handgun or long gun in any private passenger motor vehicle; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135.


    Transportation, without limit as to where or for what purpose, is legal as long as unloaded and encased. "Encased" isn't defined but a closed container, or even a zipped up 'gun rug' seems to meet the requirements.
    Looks like training is not mandatory to get a GA permit either, right? .. so subsection (d) is something to cite ...

    http://www.co.bibb.ga.us/ProbateCourt/WCLAppPack.pdf .... GA permit application

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    Alabama: You can't transport a firearm in a vehicle without a CPL. Some try to claim the federal law protects them. I warn them of the hazards of becoming a test case in a likely loser.

    Ohio: Carry in a car without a LCCH is only possible if the firearm is unloaded (that includes no rounds in a magazine or speed-loader) and the firearm is in a closed container or inaccessible without exiting the vehicle first. There are other miscellaneous exceptions, not worth going into as they don't relate to an OCer climbing into a car.

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    Florida:
    790.25
    (3) LAWFUL USES.—
    The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
    . . .
    (g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors’ gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;
    . . .
    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    . . .
    (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;
    . . .
    (m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;
    . . .
    And then there is the statute that speaks directly to unlicensed carry in a private conveyance - notice no task oriented or location specific limitations here. This section was added after some court cases surrounding Section 3 to make the legislative intent clear.
    790.25
    (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—
    Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
    Anyone 18 or older (not otherwise prohibited) without benefit of a CWFL may keep a concealed handgun "Securely encased" or otherwise not "readily accessible for immediate use" in their vehicle. We can keep a long gun anywhere.

    Note:
    790.01 is the statute making Concealed Carry unlawful without a license.
    790.053 is the statute making Open Carry generally unlawful.
    790.06 is the statute regarding Concealed Carry licensing.

    790.001
    Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
    . . .
    (16) “Readily accessible for immediate use” means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.
    (17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
    . . .
    Links:
    790.001
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0790.001.html

    790.01
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.01.html

    790.053
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0790.053.html

    790.06
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.06.html

    790.25
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.25.html
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-26-2012 at 07:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Alabama: You can't transport a firearm in a vehicle without a CPL. Some try to claim the federal law protects them. I warn them of the hazards of becoming a test case in a likely loser.

    Ohio: Carry in a car without a LCCH is only possible if the firearm is unloaded (that includes no rounds in a magazine or speed-loader) and the firearm is in a closed container or inaccessible without exiting the vehicle first. There are other miscellaneous exceptions, not worth going into as they don't relate to an OCer climbing into a car.
    I agree with the people's opinion that the AL law likely would not survive a 2nd amendment challenge...

    And OH seems to be OK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Florida:
    790.25


    And then there is the statute that speaks directly to unlicensed carry in a private conveyance - notice no task oriented or location specific limitations here. This section was added after some court cases surrounding Section 3 to make the legislative intent clear.
    790.25


    Anyone 18 or older (not otherwise prohibited) without benefit of a CWFL may keep a concealed handgun "Securely encased" or otherwise not "readily accessible for immediate use" in their vehicle. We can keep a long gun anywhere.

    Note:
    790.01 is the statute making Concealed Carry unlawful without a license.
    790.053 is the statute making Open Carry generally unlawful.
    790.06 is the statute regarding Concealed Carry licensing.

    790.001


    Links:
    790.001
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0790.001.html

    790.01
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.01.html

    790.053
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0790.053.html

    790.06
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.06.html

    790.25
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.25.html
    790.25 is a good one to cite for my needs I think ... thanks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I agree with the people's opinion that the AL law likely would not survive a 2nd amendment challenge...

    And OH seems to be OK.
    The "likely loser" to which I referred was the contention that the interstate transportation protection in federal law would protect folks in AL during intrastate travel. I agree that AL law (and OH law) requiring a license to carry in a car is unconstitutional. The right to carry (bear) arms is only protected if there is a way to do so without a State-issued permission slip. I don't see this question anywhere in the courts yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The "likely loser" to which I referred was the contention that the interstate transportation protection in federal law would protect folks in AL during intrastate travel. I agree that AL law (and OH law) requiring a license to carry in a car is unconstitutional. The right to carry (bear) arms is only protected if there is a way to do so without a State-issued permission slip. I don't see this question anywhere in the courts yet.
    You will soon ... I am looking for a permit in my state & you cannot leave your house w/o a permit .. so I cannot transport my gun to a range. In my permit application, most of the queries I marked as not being relevant ... and objected to a set of interrogatories by the administrative body (which they can send to parties in a pending case) and got them to agree to almost everything, including the striking of queries related to arrests and motor vehicle violations. In my state, if you get arrested with a handgun w/o a permit (in a vehicle, possessing, or carrying) its prison time and they don't even have to prove the handgun is a handgun or that it functions. So while I think the laws are unconstitutional on several points I am using the laws to show that most of the requirements are not relevant because many requirements are either a) not mandatory or b) unconstitutional. The purpose of this thread is to gather information regarding the mandatory nature of some of the requirements needed to obtain a permit and to limit testimony and evidence that may not advance my claims.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Looks like training is not mandatory to get a GA permit either, right? .. so subsection (d) is something to cite ...
    Correct, there is no training requirement for Georgia (which is the reason a Georgia Weapons License is not recognized by South Carolina.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Correct, there is no training requirement for Georgia (which is the reason a Georgia Weapons License is not recognized by South Carolina.)
    Thanks night owl.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5R40czQ-rI written for folks like us

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    For Kentucky

    KRS 527.020 Section 8 reads

    A loaded or unloaded firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in any enclosed container, compartment, or storage space installed as original equipment in a motor vehicle by its manufacturer, including but not limited to a glove compartment, center console, or seat pocket, regardless of whether said enclosed container, storage space, or compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism. No person or organization, public or private, shall prohibit a person from keeping a loaded or unloaded firearm or ammunition, or both, or other deadly weapon in a vehicle in accordance with the provisions of this subsection. Any attempt by a person or organization, public or private, to violate the provisions of this subsection may be the subject of an action for appropriate relief or for damages in a Circuit Court or District Court of competent jurisdiction. This subsection shall not apply to any person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    For Kentucky

    KRS 527.020 Section 8 reads
    That's a good one ... thanks

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