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Thread: local reason to carry

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    local reason to carry

    Reasons to carry at home, though the article doesn't say when the shooting occurred.

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2012/n...dies-of-wound/

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Since it looks like she recently filed for divorce(10-17) and child support....I am guessing they have a list of suspects.

    http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa...pt&flashform=0


    p.s. looks as she has been divorced at least twice before
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Since it looks like she recently filed for divorce(10-17) and child support....I am guessing they have a list of suspects.

    http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa...pt&flashform=0


    p.s. looks as she has been divorced at least twice before
    Some women have trouble choosing a compatible mate. And then make the same mistake again...I know one that married 3 losers in a row before she finally went away from the "flash" and married one that was a true steady Eddie.

    Funny part is, this particular gal worked for me, and I told her I did not think she would listen to me any more than my own daughters, but I had to warn her..this guy (her #2) is no good for you...yes, he worked for me too. As a worker he was OK, but he was a playboy, and a week after they got married he was chasing another skirt...in the same office no less...had to fire him.

    Oh, one other thing..speculation now...I wonder if the reason that the local police knew this woman wasn't because of Domestic Violence?
    Last edited by hermannr; 11-26-2012 at 09:10 PM.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Some women have trouble choosing a compatible mate.
    It's not just women. My Uncle broke off an engagement to a woman once after an argument got so heated she beat the crap out of him. Very nice woman normally, but with a heck of a temper and a black belt in tae kwon do.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    When I first started traveling to Anchorage I was told that shootings like this were called "Spenard (Anchorage suburb) Divorces".


    As for a "reason to carry", rarely will someone go to the door with a firearm in their hand ready to shoot the person on the other side. In this case it's highly possible that the shooter was ready and when the door opened,"Bang".

    Best advice is to NOT open the door until you've identified the person there and whether you want them in your house at all. Probably not a good idea to stand behind the door while doing so either.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    When I first started traveling to Anchorage I was told that shootings like this were called "Spenard (Anchorage suburb) Divorces".


    As for a "reason to carry", rarely will someone go to the door with a firearm in their hand ready to shoot the person on the other side. In this case it's highly possible that the shooter was ready and when the door opened,"Bang".

    Best advice is to NOT open the door until you've identified the person there and whether you want them in your house at all. Probably not a good idea to stand behind the door while doing so either.
    This is why I have several cameras pointing outside, I literally can see who is in my drive way, front door, yard, long before they ever knock on my door.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    When I first started traveling to Anchorage I was told that shootings like this were called "Spenard (Anchorage suburb) Divorces".


    As for a "reason to carry", rarely will someone go to the door with a firearm in their hand ready to shoot the person on the other side. In this case it's highly possible that the shooter was ready and when the door opened,"Bang".

    Best advice is to NOT open the door until you've identified the person there and whether you want them in your house at all. Probably not a good idea to stand behind the door while doing so either.
    By getting rid of child support and alimony , I am sure that cases like that would not be as common.

    Child support = financial incentive for women to get pregnant.
    Hookers you pay up front and they leave. A wife you have to making payments on even after she leaves.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    By getting rid of child support and alimony , I am sure that cases like that would not be as common.

    Child support = financial incentive for women to get pregnant.
    Hookers you pay up front and they leave. A wife you have to making payments on even after she leaves.
    Really? Is this what you think the OC movement is about, advocating for things like this?
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    I think we need a separate sub forum for the agitators. They can share their vitrolic logic with each other. You want to know who they are? They will post here with a pointed response.
    To the MODS, go ahead aand delete if you think I am wrong.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    When I used to live for a few years up in Fairbanks, Alaska, we had a lot of home invasion issues in the early 2000s. For those familiar with Fairbanks, out on Farmers Loop Rd. there's a flat swampy area near ski boot hill called Constitution Drive. There was a particularly bad invasion where masked men busted into a home at gunpoint after knocking on the door. They tied the family up and duct-taped their mouths. After robbing the place they took off and only days later was the family found, luckily alive. The ironic thing? Apparently there was a broken-off relationship and a son took that as an excuse to rob the boyfriend who had "wronged" his mother.

    A couple weeks later another group of masked robbers (including above-said angry "son") tried to pull the same trick on a noted carry-rights activist and 2 of them were killed, another wounded and one barely escaped to be picked up later.

    I know a lot of people in rural WA areas who think their communities are safe because they don't live in the "city." Often times those rural areas can be even more dangerous due to seclusion.

    Always answer the door armed.
    Last edited by Alpine; 11-27-2012 at 01:54 PM.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I always come to the door if not gun in hand, than hand on the gun in holster ready to draw. Look out the window or peephole before opening the door. You just don't know these days what is on the other side waiting for you. Sad, but true. No guarantee that even that is going to save you, but it's better than being in condition white.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Really? Is this what you think the OC movement is about, advocating for things like this?
    I was trying to figure out the possible motive and how to reduce said motive(s).

    Those are the biggest ones I could see.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    By getting rid of child support and alimony , I am sure that cases like that would not be as common.

    Child support = financial incentive for women to get pregnant.
    Hookers you pay up front and they leave. A wife you have to making payments on even after she leaves.



    last i checked the right to create kids and not support them is not enshrined in the constitution. it takes two people to make a child. don't want to pay for a kid, do not have sexual intercourse with a female of the human race and that won't be an issue.... 100% effective technique of not paying child support....


    And being ordered to pay child support is in no way a justification to harm anyone, PERIOD
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post


    last i checked the right to create kids and not support them is not enshrined in the constitution. it takes two people to make a child. don't want to pay for a kid, do not have sexual intercourse with a female of the human race and that won't be an issue.... 100% effective technique of not paying child support....


    And being ordered to pay child support is in no way a justification to harm anyone, PERIOD
    You have proven to know nothing about how the system 'works.' You and Gogo have.

    California is an extreme example do I will start with there.
    I will use a case that was told to me years ago.
    Let's say that you're a successful well paid man. You have a family, you're making your mortgage payments, plus you have a wife, and children.
    Some woman in your office, who does not make nearly as much, get's pregnant by some other guy. She kinda knows how much you make and what your name is. She files a claim in the state of California saying that you're the father of her child and she wants child support from you. Now she put your name, the place you work, etc on the paper work the only thing that she puts on that is incorrect is your address. The state (or she) mails you notice of this action and you have something like 60days to respond. You never get the package and so can't respond. She wins your paycheck in "court." Now you have to pay for her child period.

    Washington, wife cheats on you. Has a child and tells you it's yours. Things happen and you get a divorce. You learn that she had been cheating on you and the child is not yours. You still pay child support.

    Being enslaved by the state, on her behalf, would seem like a justification that he might have used. In Washington it's worse because you might never get a day before a jury. The state claims that child support is a civil case and it can only be heard administratively. Plus the other party never has to appear at any "hearing."

    I am not claiming that murder is correct but, it's something to think about as a cause for those killings.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    I think we need a separate sub forum for the agitators. They can share their vitrolic logic with each other. You want to know who they are? They will post here with a pointed response.
    To the MODS, go ahead aand delete if you think I am wrong.
    Some sites have that, but the "agitators" or whatever do not stay in their pen.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    I think we need a separate sub forum for the agitators. They can share their vitrolic logic with each other. You want to know who they are? They will post here with a pointed response.
    To the MODS, go ahead aand delete if you think I am wrong.
    Irony.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post

    And being ordered to pay child support is in no way a justification to harm anyone, PERIOD
    Side note, money is motive for murder.

    And the state is anti-male in cases of child support and the like. We don't have alimony in Washington so my first answer was a broad answer.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    You have proven to know nothing about how the system 'works.' You and Gogo have.

    California is an extreme example do I will start with there.
    I will use a case that was told to me years ago.
    Let's say that you're a successful well paid man. You have a family, you're making your mortgage payments, plus you have a wife, and children.
    Some woman in your office, who does not make nearly as much, get's pregnant by some other guy. She kinda knows how much you make and what your name is. She files a claim in the state of California saying that you're the father of her child and she wants child support from you. Now she put your name, the place you work, etc on the paper work the only thing that she puts on that is incorrect is your address. The state (or she) mails you notice of this action and you have something like 60days to respond. You never get the package and so can't respond. She wins your paycheck in "court." Now you have to pay for her child period.

    Washington, wife cheats on you. Has a child and tells you it's yours. Things happen and you get a divorce. You learn that she had been cheating on you and the child is not yours. You still pay child support.

    Being enslaved by the state, on her behalf, would seem like a justification that he might have used. In Washington it's worse because you might never get a day before a jury. The state claims that child support is a civil case and it can only be heard administratively. Plus the other party never has to appear at any "hearing."

    I am not claiming that murder is correct but, it's something to think about as a cause for those killings.

    Your opening statement was directed to the wrong people. Try looking in the mirror. All your "examples" make for nice stories but you overlooked a couple of key points. Due Process and DNA. If proven that the claims were fraudulently made the "defendant" can also get his Legal Costs assessed against the "Plaintiff".

    As for your California Case, even you admit it was hearsay.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Your opening statement was directed to the wrong people. Try looking in the mirror. All your "examples" make for nice stories but you overlooked a couple of key points. Due Process and DNA. If proven that the claims were fraudulently made the "defendant" can also get his Legal Costs assessed against the "Plaintiff".

    As for your California Case, even you admit it was hearsay.
    Sorry, the Washington case that I know, there was no due process and no chance for DNA without having to hire a bunch of lawyers and getting at least 2 court orders.

    Edit:
    http://www.fathermag.com/news/2764-child-support.shtml
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 11-28-2012 at 09:39 AM. Reason: added interesting link
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    This is going WAY off topic but even when DNA evidence is proven that it isn't the man's kid, there are many cases where the guy still has to pay child support. They say it's so the kid doesn't suffer, but it's because child support is a big revenue generator. The state makes lots of $$$$ off of child support. It's the only place in America where we still have debtors prison. I can see, although not condone, why a man would lose his mind over a bad divorce and unfair child support payments, etc. The state doesn't make it easy to get past a bad divorce and move on, even without kids. With them, it's damn near impossible to put it behind you.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    This is going WAY off topic but even when DNA evidence is proven that it isn't the man's kid, there are many cases where the guy still has to pay child support. They say it's so the kid doesn't suffer, but it's because child support is a big revenue generator. The state makes lots of $$$$ off of child support. It's the only place in America where we still have debtors prison. I can see, although not condone, why a man would lose his mind over a bad divorce and unfair child support payments, etc. The state doesn't make it easy to get past a bad divorce and move on, even without kids. With them, it's damn near impossible to put it behind you.
    +1 And many more cases were judges and lawyers and prosecutors etc.....ignore our "no fault" laws and side with the female. It has to do with revenue or trying to appear Chivalrous(?)

    When I went through my divorce I got rid of most my weapons, not for fear of what I would do but for fear of what she would do and how she would manipulate the system.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Re: local reason to carry

    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    This is going WAY off topic but even when DNA evidence is proven that it isn't the man's kid, there are many cases where the guy still has to pay child support. They say it's so the kid doesn't suffer, but it's because child support is a big revenue generator. The state makes lots of $$$$ off of child support. It's the only place in America where we still have debtors prison. I can see, although not condone, why a man would lose his mind over a bad divorce and unfair child support payments, etc. The state doesn't make it easy to get past a bad divorce and move on, even without kids. With them, it's damn near impossible to put it behind you.
    That's why you don't sign the birth certificates without getting a DNA test first. Signing the birth certificate is considered accepting the child as yours...

    ETA: oops forgot something.

    And don't participate in the raising of the child either.

    I haven't seen a case where someone that did not perform those two acts was forced to pay child support.


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    Last edited by Anonymouse; 11-29-2012 at 09:00 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    That's why you don't sign the birth certificates without getting a DNA test first. Signing the birth certificate is considered accepting the child as yours...

    ETA: oops forgot something.

    And don't participate in the raising of the child either.

    I haven't seen a case where someone that did not perform those two acts was forced to pay child support.


    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

    Civil law in Washington the burden of proof is law, basically if the judge believes a partner (statistically females) that partner wins. (Even when male has proof to contrary)

    From my understanding judges pretty much make up their mind before they even get into court.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Civil law in Washington the burden of proof is law, basically if the judge believes a partner (statistically females) that partner wins. (Even when male has proof to contrary)

    From my understanding judges pretty much make up their mind before they even get into court.
    Back to the point, no matter what party "wins" money is still a motive for murder.

    The state creates the friction no matter what side "wins."

    Considering I have read the federal child support laws and the child support laws of the state of Washington. I know Washington's DSHS/DCS is not following the laws at all. Combined that with the friction, the lack of equality in the system, the serious lack of due process, etc. I see the state as being the cause of the woman's death.

    I see the only way of reducing this type of thing from happening is by doing the following;
    1. Simple follow the LAWS they way they are written. Punctuation has legal meaning does it not? (any lawyer please answer that one)
    2. Get rid of all perceived/actual taxes on the earnings of citizens,
    3. Stop using inflationary money,
    4. Make it so only one parent has to work to keep the family fed and housed.


    I am sure there are more things but those would be the biggest starters.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    4. Make it so only one parent has to work to keep the family fed and housed.


    That's already possible for those who aren't obsessed with all the "latest toys" and trying to keep up with the "Jones'".

    With the exception of only the very poorest, most of those families where the "spouse" has to work is because they have chosen a lifestyle that's beyond the means of a single wage earner. Their choice.

    Wow, for someone so against anything and everything "Government" this sure sounds like you want them to get more involved.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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