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Thread: permit approval sitting at the new britain pd chief desk

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    permit approval sitting at the new britain pd chief desk

    so i just got word that my permit approval has been sitting at the chief desk for 2 weeks hopefully i'll get it by next week.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    This is a standard line by most PDs used as a stalling tactic. Have you filed an appeal? Assuming it went to the Chief's desk when they received the national criminal history report back, you are over a week past the deadlines in CGS 29-29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    This is a standard line by most PDs used as a stalling tactic. Have you filed an appeal? Assuming it went to the Chief's desk when they received the national criminal history report back, you are over a week past the deadlines in CGS 29-29.
    no, I haven't yet i was thinking about that, I don't know if that would help me out though,the lady i spoke with told me to give em until next week.I did tell her that they have 5 days to approve or denied my permit after they receive it back from Middletown.she also that they have to get the fbi bg check but I know thats b.s I will be calling them everyday after today.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    no, I haven't yet i was thinking about that, I don't know if that would help me out though,the lady i spoke with told me to give em until next week.I did tell her that they have 5 days to approve or denied my permit after they receive it back from Middletown.she also that they have to get the fbi bg check but I know thats b.s I will be calling them everyday after today.
    They have '1 week' to approve or deny when they receive the national criminal history check. Not 5 days.

    Stop calling the local PD. Call SPBI and get your dates. Appeal if your deadlines have been exceeded.

    860-685-8480 - SPBI

    Ask for 'records'. Have your money order information ready.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    They have '1 week' to approve or deny when they receive the national criminal history check. Not 5 days.

    Stop calling the local PD. Call SPBI and get your dates. Appeal if your deadlines have been exceeded.

    860-685-8480 - SPBI

    Ask for 'records'. Have your money order information ready.
    I did call spbi and they said they were sent out the 9th back to New Britain Pd,so i called N.B records and they said it was sitting at the chief desk.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    I did call spbi and they said they were sent out the 9th back to New Britain Pd,so i called N.B records and they said it was sitting at the chief desk.
    fill out your appeal letter AND questionaire and mail it today.
    has it been more than 8 weeks since you submitted the app and fingerprints? if yes, you have TWO reasons to appeal.
    them saying to give them until next week is rediculous, they've already exceeded the state statutes, and you have grounds to appeal right now.

    better to send it now then several days from now. if BFPE sends documents to NB before they issue your permit, it'll simply kick em in the butt to get it finalised that much quicker. and it'll pressure them into knowing they are being watched in regards to abiding by the statutes.

    just remember that if you file the appeal, you MUST notify the BFPE immediately if you receive your permit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    I did call spbi and they said they were sent out the 9th back to New Britain Pd,so i called N.B records and they said it was sitting at the chief desk.
    So then you are done. The only action to take is to appeal. They violated CGS 29-29.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...92&bfpeNav=%7C
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    fill out your appeal letter AND questionaire and mail it today.
    has it been more than 8 weeks since you submitted the app and fingerprints? if yes, you have TWO reasons to appeal.
    them saying to give them until next week is rediculous, they've already exceeded the state statutes, and you have grounds to appeal right now.

    better to send it now then several days from now. if BFPE sends documents to NB before they issue your permit, it'll simply kick em in the butt to get it finalised that much quicker. and it'll pressure them into knowing they are being watched in regards to abiding by the statutes.

    just remember that if you file the appeal, you MUST notify the BFPE immediately if you receive your permit
    Very well said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Very well said.
    ok I will do it first thing tomorrow morning,thanks a lot guys.

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    2 Send The Appellant Questionnaire: link to questionnaire

    Scroll to bottom of page to "Printable Version" and print. Complete the 3 page questionnaire. The deadline to send in the questionnaire is 90 days, or your case will be placed on the "Dormancy Calendar" at the next hearing. This could mean your appeal will end.

    The last page of the Questionnaire is an “Arrest History and Motor Vehicle History” form. Please note the word arrest History vs. Conviction. If you are not sure of what you were charged with when arrested or you forgot the date, you can get a copy of your arrest record from the Dept of Public Safety (D.P.S) for $50 (860-685-8290) and a copy of your motor vehicle history from the Dept. of Motor Vehicles for $30. We suggest you should also send copies of court documents, letters of recommendation, certificates, or witness testimony letters if available.


    from website linked above ....

    I objected to the arrest history and MV history .. and the board ruled it was not mandatory to complete. If you complete it and something is missing or incorrect then they can use this against you in your appeal for not being honest. I also objected to the employer question because, under 29-32b(c) they can contact your employer .. and your employer will think you are a criminal of some sort because your permit was denied. The board ruled that the employer information is not required as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    So then you are done. The only action to take is to appeal. They violated CGS 29-29.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...92&bfpeNav=%7C

    my permit was denied due to a protective order that i didn't know about in 2005 and 3 arrest i didn't put down in the application.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    my permit was denied due to a protective order that i didn't know about in 2005 and 3 arrest i didn't put down in the application.
    You could reapply and disclose the information.

    Were the arrests convictions? Is the protective order still in effect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You could reapply and disclose the information.

    Were the arrests convictions? Is the protective order still in effect?
    x2, this is very important info to know before reapplying or appealing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You could reapply and disclose the information.

    Were the arrests convictions? Is the protective order still in effect?
    I disagree .... reapply and OBJECT to the request for information.

    He did not get denied because of the information , he was denied because he did not disclose.

    I doubt a 2005 PO is in effect any more....

    Arrests are irrelevant ....

    So you can either a) reapply and just write "objection" or "not relevant" on all queries that are not relevant OR appeal and argue that they aren't ... but your case is stronger if you reapply at the PD IMO; after all while the information is not relevant - failure to disclose may be considered dishonesty...

    The OP cannot have not known he had some arrests .... and the PO is likely related to one of the arrests
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-30-2012 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The OP cannot have not known he had some arrests .... and the PO is likely related to one of the arrests
    not that it's relevant, but that may or may not be an accurate guess. for example, I personally was denied on my first application because I checked "no" for have I ever been arrested, when in fact I had been arrested twice in my life. and I honestly did NOT know I was arrested either of those 2 times

    I gathered the correct info and included it on a new app and then reapplied; I now have my permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I doubt a 2005 PO is in effect any more....
    x2. and just to clarify for the OP; an active PO/RO makes you ineligible for a PP. but if it has been cancelled or expired, which it probably has, then you are eligible; so long as they still deem you suitable. and of course so long as you have never been convicted of any of the charges listed in the statutes which also would make you ineligible
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-30-2012 at 08:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    not that it's relevant, but that may or may not be an accurate guess. for example, I personally was denied on my first application because I checked "no" for have I ever been arrested, when in fact I had been arrested twice in my life. and I honestly did NOT know I was arrested either of those 2 times

    I gathered the correct info and included it on a new app and then reapplied; I now have my permit.



    x2. and just to clarify for the OP; an active PO/RO makes you ineligible for a PP. but if it has been cancelled or expired, which it probably has, then you are eligible; so long as they still deem you suitable. and of course so long as you have never been convicted of any of the charges listed in the statutes which also would make you ineligible
    Well, the OP can sidestep this issue (and others) by just responding that the information requested is not relevant.

    In respect to a PO/RO making a person ineligible...I don't think that its true anymore. Now if the order takes away the gun rights of the individual then yes .. but a PO/RO issued that does not touch the gun owner's right to own a gun, then I think that the law is incorrect. Its a harder "sell" to be sure and may require more than a visit in front of the board. My case this month will touch on this subject matter.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    He did not get denied because of the information , he was denied because he did not disclose.
    We do not know that. The denial very well might have been for a conviction, which we can still assist with. Never assume that every applicant understands the intricate differences between arrests, nolles, dismissals, convictions and how the erasure system works.

    This is the kind of problem where the applicant needs to give more information and work with us to figure out the correct course of action.

    The OP cannot have not known he had some arrests .... and the PO is likely related to one of the arrests
    Not true at all. We see these things all the time which is why we have made tools like our Conviction History search available: http://ctcarry.com/ConvictionHistory/StateSearch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    We do not know that..... Never assume that every applicant understands the intricate differences between arrests, nolles, dismissals, convictions and how the erasure system works.

    This is the kind of problem where the applicant needs to give more information and work with us to figure out the correct course of action.



    Not true at all. We see these things all the time which is why we have made tools like our Conviction History search available: http://ctcarry.com/ConvictionHistory/StateSearch

    Well, the law in respect to arrests, nolles, etc is very complicated. I would not want to get into a discussion of an arrest in public ... the time for that is in court, if ever there is a need..anything you say in from of the board could be used against you later in not only the case regarding the arrest but in other cases.

    The best course of action is to just put on the application that arrest & MV record is not relevant or not required.

    They can ask for any information they desire on the form; it does not mean that the information being requested is mandatory.

    Has CT carry headed any efforts to change the DPS form in what they can ask? It something to consider.

    I have already gotten the board to agree that 1/2 of what they ask is not proper to ask .. but the ? will still be on the form; I don't think the board can require DESPP to change the form.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-02-2012 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Has CT carry headed any efforts to change the DPS form in what they can ask? It something to consider.
    We are still a long way off from being able to accomplish this. It is on 'the list', however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    We are still a long way off from being able to accomplish this. It is on 'the list', however.
    well, the board has already ruled on their questionnaire's questions being not relevant ... I have objected to the town's questionnaire's answers under the same legal theory (and on the DPS form too) ... so a ruling will be forth coming that may be of help to accomplish.

    But DESPP is full of psychopaths ... so getting them to do this w/o a court order will be difficult ... I will ask the board for this relief (I don't know if they have the authority to issue such an order...but I will ask)...

    "you're always preparing!"...spaceballs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You could reapply and disclose the information.

    Were the arrests convictions? Is the protective order still in effect?

    my arrest were related to the same case and the PO was not. i was never been convicted of any felony's or have any charges brought up against me that would violate my right to carry.not that i didn't want to disclose my arrest on the app i just wasn't aware that an arrest from 7 years ago would be the reason for my denial besides when i got arrested i was on my way to turn myself in for a fta,unlucky me that a cop stopped me on my way to turn myself in and made the arrest.oh,and the PO is not valid anymore and i didnt know anything about that either.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    my arrest were related to the same case and the PO was not. i was never been convicted of any felony's or have any charges brought up against me that would violate my right to carry.not that i didn't want to disclose my arrest on the app i just wasn't aware that an arrest from 7 years ago would be the reason for my denial besides when i got arrested i was on my way to turn myself in for a fta,unlucky me that a cop stopped me on my way to turn myself in and made the arrest.oh,and the PO is not valid anymore and i didnt know anything about that either.
    You aren't really answering the questions I asked.

    I didn't ask if they were felonies; if they were, you are all done anyway without a pardon. But I did ask what the disposition of those arrests were. 'Arrest' means nothing. If it is dismissed, acquitted or nolled, it might/should/probably is erased. That yields a different path and set of answers for you. If they were convictions, that yields a different set entirely and then I need to know the statutes you were convicted of (not arrested for). Again, 'arrest' means very little. It has little to do even with what you will be charged with and even less for what you might be tried or convicted of.

    I do understand if you don't want to post this info here (I wouldn't), but I will need the details in order to assist you.


    If you would like to do it in private, by all means feel free to handle this via email: rich [at] ctcarry.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You aren't really answering the questions I asked.

    I didn't ask if they were felonies; if they were, you are all done anyway without a pardon. But I did ask what the disposition of those arrests were. 'Arrest' means nothing. If it is dismissed, acquitted or nolled, it might/should/probably is erased. That yields a different path and set of answers for you. If they were convictions, that yields a different set entirely and then I need to know the statutes you were convicted of (not arrested for). Again, 'arrest' means very little. It has little to do even with what you will be charged with and even less for what you might be tried or convicted of.

    I do understand if you don't want to post this info here (I wouldn't), but I will need the details in order to assist you.


    If you would like to do it in private, by all means feel free to handle this via email: rich [at] ctcarry.com
    .
    it was a mv case,I pleaded guilty to a failure to appear and i was asked to pay a fine,that was it.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    .
    it was a mv case,I pleaded guilty to a failure to appear and i was asked to pay a fine,that was it.
    Then you need to disclose it. It will likely always show up on your record.

    You can research your record if you want to make sure nothing else is likely to show up: http://ctcarry.com/ConvictionHistory/StateSearch


    Your best bet is to reapply while disclosing the correct information. If they deny you again, you will need to file an appeal.
    I don't think they will deny you again, but it is possible. I am pretty confident the BFPE will overturn a denial though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afragu View Post
    my arrest were related to the same case and the PO was not. i was never been convicted of any felony's or have any charges brought up against me that would violate my right to carry.not that i didn't want to disclose my arrest on the app i just wasn't aware that an arrest from 7 years ago would be the reason for my denial besides when i got arrested i was on my way to turn myself in for a fta,unlucky me that a cop stopped me on my way to turn myself in and made the arrest.oh,and the PO is not valid anymore and i didnt know anything about that either.
    OK, well, I don't believe that you were on your way to a court house & got nabbed en route. So if you tell that in a board hearing you'll be determined to be dishonest.

    And it seems as if you were aware of the arrest and did not object to the query nor list it then you agreed that this is grounds for not getting a permit; how legal this is is arguable but its not an argument I would wish to make before a judicial hearing.

    I suggest you go and look at Section H of the dps form ....


    Nor did you answer Rich's question as to the subject matter of the arrest ... seems as if you cannot be completely forthright in any venue ... I have to assume it was a domestic type of case that does make you ineligible under the disqualifies section. You are welcome to argue that the disqualifier listed is either a) not mandatory or b) unconstitutional ; for that you would need to file an appeal with the board as your first (of many I imagine) steps --- you may eventually be successful.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-03-2012 at 01:01 PM.

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