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A doctor talks about what type of bullet causes the most damage.

skidmark

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1. Here we go again, .45 v 9mm, with the geeks wanting to talk about the 10mm and 10mm kurtz (.40).

2. Of course rifle bullets are going to cause more damage than handgun bullets.

3. Is there anybody who does not understand how unwieldy it is to carry a rifle around all day, and how limited they are in very close quarters?

4. Didn't watch the video - did he discuss the fact that rthe .22LR is, by percentage of times used, the most lethal round?

Like the rest of life, it's all a compromise.

I've got better things to do that debate anything except that carrying is better than not carrying.

stay safe.
 

zack991

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1. Here we go again, .45 v 9mm, with the geeks wanting to talk about the 10mm and 10mm kurtz (.40).

2. Of course rifle bullets are going to cause more damage than handgun bullets.

3. Is there anybody who does not understand how unwieldy it is to carry a rifle around all day, and how limited they are in very close quarters?

4. Didn't watch the video - did he discuss the fact that rthe .22LR is, by percentage of times used, the most lethal round?

Like the rest of life, it's all a compromise.

I've got better things to do that debate anything except that carrying is better than not carrying.

stay safe.

3. You may be surprised.

4. He talked about the .223 / 5.56 round .

My goal was not to start another war of cailbers, but share the opine of a doctor.
 
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davidmcbeth

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My goal was not to start another war of cailbers, but share the opine of a doctor.

Although my gun round .50 cal rifle was not covered (maybe no tissue greater than a sliver to show) it was nice to see....and folks will always start discussing effectiveness of calibers ...

Always nice to see information ..

Keep the Faith
 

HeroHog

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Shreveport, LA
#3: You haven't played with my SUB2000 Kel-Tec I see! 16" folded! :banana:

SUB2000.JPG
 

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skidmark

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#3: You haven't played with my SUB2000 Kel-Tec I see! 16" folded! :banana:

My friend, I want to see a video of you "drawing" that thing, unfolding it, and getting off two shots on targets under 7 yards at your 3 o'clock.

Remember, I know you and your circumstances. You are telling me you can repel boarders at the starboard rail as easily/effectively/efficiently with that rifle as you could with a handgun? I don't think so! (BTW, is your EDC still that KelTec in what was it, .32?)

I never said "real" rifle calibers were not more effective than pistol calibers, or that pistol calibers (.22, for instance) jacked up to come out of a rifle-sized cartridge (your .223) were not more effective than pistol calibers. What I said is that life is one big compromise and that for ease of carry and efficiency of use in close quarters a handgun beats a rifle.

However, it sorta goes along the lines of "If I knew there was gonna be trouble I woulda brought a rifle. Heck, I woulda brought all my friends with all their rifles. Or if there was some way to, I woulda been somewhere else in the first place." If some famous guy didn't say that, he should have.

stay safe.
 

Redbaron007

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SW MO
Not a bad video.

Really doesn't try to compare the 9 to 45. He generally speaks about gunshot wounds and their treatment. He does compare the effects of a rifle to a handgun injury. Gave some interesting stats on gunshot victims; however, those stats were from 2008.

Basically, he said, if you shoot someone with a handgun, you have to hit something to kill them; something vital. And, a handgun doesn't have the same destruction as the rifle.
 

Freedom1Man

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It would seem that what he and P.O. Ackley have said about bullet wounds match up pretty well.

They both agreed that the velocity at the time of impact has allot to do with the survivability of being shot.
Ackley noted that a .177 caliber bullet going 4000FPS does a tremendous amount of damage to living flesh and blood creatures.
He also pointed out that a .270 hunting round can do more damage to armor than a 30-06AP round against the same armor.

There seems to be a tipping point where caliber and velocity cross though. A slow moving .45 will make a bigger hole than a faster moving 9mm.
I am not saying one is better than the other.
 

KYGlockster

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Ashland, KY
Nice - any suggestions on how to get those 31rounders loaded past 1/2 way?

...yep - off topic. Sorry.

I have never had any problems with mine. I normally only load 30 rounds in my Glock factory magazines instead of 33 (I believe those are the 33 rounders; I could be wrong). What I have had problems with were the Glock .40, 22 round magazines.
 

KYKevin

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Mar 29, 2010
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Location
Owensboro, Kentucky, USA
I have never had any problems with mine. I normally only load 30 rounds in my Glock factory magazines instead of 33 (I believe those are the 33 rounders; I could be wrong). What I have had problems with were the Glock .40, 22 round magazines.

When I had mine I had some of the korean 31 rd Glock mags 40 cal. and they fed just fine with 30 in them. Plus they only cost me $11 ea at the time. Very sturdy as well. I miss my sub2k. Wish I hadn't sold it.
 

KYGlockster

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Let's talk about what we all know; a well placed shot is a deadly shot. It doesn't matter how big ya gun is if you can't aim the gun.

As one can be witness to in the video -- even a well placed shot can do nothing. I was amazed that a man was hit with a .40S&W that would have severely damaged the heart and it didn't even reach the heart. The round only penetrated about an inch.

People can argue the caliber war all they want, but if a round doesn't have sufficient velocity it will NOT hit vitals. Just because a bullet is heavy does NOT mean it will penetrate. If you are using FMJ then they will penetrate as long as they do not come into contact with heavy bone. If you are using JHP then they will expand and slow down, and this is why velocity is important. It is also extremely important that you carry a round that will not OVER expand, and cause severe drag. You can have a fast load, but if it expands to twice its size or better you will not get sufficient penetration.

There is a guy on Youtube that conducts excellent ballistic tests: his Youtube name is tnoutdoors9 and here is his channel http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9 . Look at SOME of his videos with heavy .45 acp and light 9mm; they just are not sufficient to penetrate properly. Then look at his .357 Sig. videos.

I just recently changed my carry load due (.357 Sig.) to one of his ballistic tests. I used to carry 125 gr. GoldDot, but now I carry 125 gr. Underwood. This Underwood load still uses the excellent GoldDot bullet, but the velocity from my Glock 32 is over 1,500 fps and nearly 650 fpe! This load penetrates and expands very well. You can watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ughIFOrIP_w .

He does another video with this CLEAR ballistic gel which is awesome! You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iujNWfhUx4A .

I would reccommend everyone check this guy out; I would guaruntee he has probably done a test on the ammo you carry. Not only does he do the tests, but he does them right!
 
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Redbaron007

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I agree with you KYGlockster.....I subscribe to tnoutdoors9 YouTube channel. He seems to do a very good job of being consistant with the ballistic gel testing.

One of the takeaways from the video was similar to what you stated......the bullet has to have some velocity to enter, but also has to hit a vital part. Unlike a rifle, the impact anywhere creates a tremendous amount of damage.

I'm a BIG fan of the 357sig. ;)
 

MSG Laigaie

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Jan 10, 2011
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Philipsburg, Montana
Bullets that enter into human flesh cause way more damage than ones that don't. I say carry what is comfortable for you to use.

This is truth. .17 cal or .68 cal does not matter if you do not make contact with the threat. Range time is as important as your caliber. I exercise my EDC at least twice a month, even if I just dump a mag or two. You should not use a tool unless you can be effective with it. Little bullet, big bullet, get it to center of mass.
 

KYGlockster

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Bullets that enter into human flesh cause way more damage than ones that don't.

I say carry what is comfortable for you to use.

That is true; however, I want to carry a round that will go beyond the flesh and into vital organs while at the same time expanding. I completely agree that any gun is better than no gun, but if you are capable of carrying a proven round then that is what I would do.

There are some excellent loads in 9mm. The things to watch are bullet design, weight and velocity.
 

scott58dh

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My caliber of Choice = !!!

357 Magnum !!! All Day long !!! :cool:

But, let's hear an opinion from someone who knows a little more about the subject than most of us combined ,,, IMHO. ;)

"People say, *THIS* is everything. Velocity, Caliber, Placement, Permanent Cavity, Temporary Cavity is everything. Look, nothing is everything, but everything is something." Massad Ayoob

Peace & RKBA 4ever ! :cool:
 

Freedom1Man

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357 Magnum !!! All Day long !!! :cool:

But, let's hear an opinion from someone who knows a little more about the subject than most of us combined ,,, IMHO. ;)

"People say, *THIS* is everything. Velocity, Caliber, Placement, Permanent Cavity, Temporary Cavity is everything. Look, nothing is everything, but everything is something." Massad Ayoob

Peace & RKBA 4ever ! :cool:

.357SIG

Why only have 6rnds when I can have 13 or more.
 
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