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Thread: plan to be arrested - having one is good

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    plan to be arrested - having one is good

    While this situation was not only a false accusation but probably a highly vindictive false accusation, the lessons apply whenever you find yourself in the middle of the deep stuff.

    These are not the only things you need to know, but they might help you get ready in case anything ever does happen.

    stay safe.

    http://www.ammoland.com/2012/11/28/b...#axzz2DbhWnZ8H
    Of course, few people give much thought to what they should do (and not do) if they are falsely accused. But like the Gesses, prior to their ordeal, you too might have an “it’ll never happen to me” attitude. But the truth is, there’s no way to know for sure what curveballs life might have in store—and it’s better to be safe than sorry.
    Read on for 12 lessons that Michelle Gesse has learned in the Criminal Justice School of Hard Knocks. Having this information beforehand might make a huge difference if you or a loved one is ever falsely accused of a crime.
    Have an “arrest plan” in place (yes, it could happen to you). Generally, people don’t assume that their homes will catch fire. Statistically speaking, it’s not a likely occurrence. But most people still take out homeowner’s or renter’s insurance, just in case. Likewise, though you hope it’ll never happen, you teach your child to scream and run if accosted by a stranger. You’ve probably considered what you’d do if someone approached you in a dark parking lot. And depending on where you live, your family may have a wildfire, hurricane, tornado, or earthquake plan in place. In the same way, says Gesse, you should think through and be prepared for a possible arrest.
    “None of us think something like this could happen to us, but it is possible that at some point in your life you or someone you love may be arrested,” she says. “It could be your spouse, your child, a relative, or a good friend. What would you do if this happened? Would you be forearmed with any strategy or knowledge, or would you be floundering, completely at the mercy of ‘the system’? Believe me, it’s a good idea to think about what you would do if you were confronted by the police at your own front door, or how you might respond if you received a phone call telling you that a loved one had been arrested. That disaster may have a higher probability than many of those for which you have prepared.”
    Likewise, it is wise to have “the talk” with your kids beforehand. This particular “talk” should be about what they should do if they are ever arrested or interrogated by law enforcement officers, regardless of the reason.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    What is totally disgusting to me about that story is that the person who made the false accusation suffered absolutely no consequences.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    I already taught my kid that if cops come to your door .. make them break it down to gain entry and do not talk to them.

    Then you have evidence of a forced entry ... (and making them break down a door is no additional crime).

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If her article is aimed at informing her fellow citizens then a simple "After my husband was acquitted, we went after the bum who falsely accused my husband and had these experiences." This would drive home the point that the justice system is a two way street, not a one way street. The accuser becomes the accused both criminally and civilly. Her call for getting the best lawyer you can afford and maybe not afford is very good advice.

    There are serious misdemeanor crimes committed if a citizen falsely accuses a fellow citizen here in Missouri.

    The article is a tease for her book.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I already taught my kid that if cops come to your door .. make them break it down to gain entry and do not talk to them.

    Then you have evidence of a forced entry ... (and making them break down a door is no additional crime).
    Are you certain that there is not one single jurisdiction in this country where not opening the door to a police officer with a valid warrant could not possibly be considered any kind of crime whatsoever? Broad statements like that are dangerous unless backed up by court rulings that have broad reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Are you certain that there is not one single jurisdiction in this country where not opening the door to a police officer with a valid warrant could not possibly be considered any kind of crime whatsoever? Broad statements like that are dangerous unless backed up by court rulings that have broad reach.
    As certain as I can be ... they just break down the door if they wish...how can that be a crime anyway? Obstruction requires action, not inaction. Keep your doors closed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Obstruction requires action, not inaction. Keep your doors closed.
    I was twice convicted of obstructing an officer for sitting still and declining consent to search.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Well, in Missouri, it seems to be a crime to not open your door when a peace officer is serving a warrant.

    575.160.: Interference with legal process.

    1. A person commits the crime of interference with legal process if, knowing any person is authorized by law to serve process, for the purpose of preventing such person from effecting the service of any process, he interferes with or obstructs such person.

    2. "Process" includes any writ, summons, subpoena, warrant other than an arrest warrant, or other process or order of a court.

    3. Interference with legal process is a class B misdemeanor.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5750000160.HTM
    So, it is important that a citizen be fully aware of there legal standing by simply not opening a door to a peace officer serving a warrant, even if the peace officer is at the wrong house. Now, by not opening the door, the fuzz breaks down your door, and you peacably submit per the warrant, could/would the state charge you under this statute? I do not know.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Well, in Missouri, it seems to be a crime to not open your door when a peace officer is serving a warrant.

    So, it is important that a citizen be fully aware of there legal standing by simply not opening a door to a peace officer serving a warrant, even if the peace officer is at the wrong house. Now, by not opening the door, the fuzz breaks down your door, and you peacably submit per the warrant, could/would the state charge you under this statute? I do not know.
    Check the wording of that statute carefully, it requires "knowing any person is authorized by law to serve process". Having them just yell through the door that they are police does not let you "know", anyone can claim to be police and home invasion robbers often do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Check the wording of that statute carefully, it requires "knowing any person is authorized by law to serve process". Having them just yell through the door that they are police does not let you "know", anyone can claim to be police and home invasion robbers often do.
    Good point. If anyone is yelling through your door claiming they are the police it is a high probability that it is the police. Though, a phone call to 911 is recommended to verify while taking passive defensive measures in the event that the low probability alternative is the case.

    +1 to you Sir.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Check the wording of that statute carefully, it requires "knowing any person is authorized by law to serve process". Having them just yell through the door that they are police does not let you "know", anyone can claim to be police and home invasion robbers often do.
    Correct .. and the purpose of making them break down the door is because you don't know if they are legally there or not. They are allowed to lie in the performance of their duties so anything they say can assumed to be a lie.

    I was a process server and I understand the idea behind that statue but it does not require a person to open the door. Being a process server was my favorite job ! "catch me if you can"

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Correct .. and the purpose of making them break down the door is because you don't know if they are legally there or not. They are allowed to lie in the performance of their duties so anything they say can assumed to be a lie.

    I was a process server and I understand the idea behind that statue but it does not require a person to open the door. Being a process server was my favorite job ! "catch me if you can"
    I've done a couple of serves. It really calls for creativity, I'll give you that.

    The funnest one was serving a county employee at his office.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    I was twice convicted of obstructing an officer for sitting still and declining consent to search.
    Convicited or charged?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Convicited or charged?
    The answer is in the post you quoted. Reading is fundamental.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV XD9 View Post
    The answer is in the post you quoted. Reading is fundamental.
    Maybe or maybe not. The poster stated that he was convicted, but I have seen several times when people will mean to use one word but instead use another word that has a whole different meaning (myself included). If he was in fact convicted for pleading the 5th and the 4th, I sure the hell would like to know more about it. People are charged with stupid sh!t all the time. So if he was only charged, sadly enough it wouldn't be that big of an attention getter. But if he was convicted.....well, thats a whole other story.
    Last edited by self preservation; 12-03-2012 at 09:51 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    plan to be arrested - having one is good

    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Maybe or maybe not. The poster stated that he was convicted, but I have seen several times when people will mean to use one word but instead use another word that has a whole different meaning (myself included). If he was in fact convicted for pleading the 5th and the 4th, I sure the hell would like to know more about it. People are charged with stupid sh!t all the time. So if he was only charged, sadly enough it wouldn't be that big of an attention getter. But if he was convicted.....well, thats a whole other story.
    Yeah, I took your post as questioning the word choice of the poster to whom you were replying. You demonstrated more fundamental reading skills than the poster who questioned yours did.

    In reading, using context to infer effectively is fundamental.


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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Maybe or maybe not.
    There's no maybe about it. I wasn't guessing when I responded the first time. He's posted plenty about it.
    Last edited by LV XD9; 12-04-2012 at 12:41 AM.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV XD9 View Post
    There's no maybe about it. I wasn't guessing when I responded the first time. He's posted plenty about it.
    If a 16 word sentence is "plenty" then maybe so. I'm still guessing that the poster misused a word. If not, I'd like to hear his story. To learn from his experience(s). The only thing that I'm learning from your comments are some people can't see past the tip of their nose. Whats so hard to understand that a post struck me as odd and that I was requesting clarification? Just because he physically typed the word "convicted" does not mean that the whole story has been told as you claim. It does not mean that one can not question the post itself. And just because a post has been typed using or not using certain words does not necessarily make it an accurate statement.


    clar·i·fy (klr-f)
    v. clar·i·fied, clar·i·fy·ing, clar·i·fies
    v.tr.
    1. To make clear or easier to understand; elucidate: clarified her intentions.
    2. To clear of confusion or uncertainty: clarify the mind.
    3. To make clear by removing impurities or solid matter, as by heating gently or filtering: clarify butter.
    v.intr.
    To become clear.
    Last edited by self preservation; 12-04-2012 at 02:14 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    If a 16 word sentence is "plenty" then maybe so.
    I didn't mean in this thread alone. He's posted about this plenty of times in other threads on the forum. A simple search would show you, if you honestly wanted to know.

    Yes, he was found guilty (aka convicted) of obstruction.


    Person 1: That house is blue.
    Person 2: Blue or red?
    Person 1: I don't know - what did I just say?
    Last edited by LV XD9; 12-04-2012 at 02:57 PM.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV XD9 View Post
    I didn't mean in this thread alone. He's posted about this plenty of times in other threads on the forum. A simple search would show you, if you honestly wanted to know.

    Yes, he was found guilty (aka convicted) of obstruction.
    I doubt a "simple" search would have done much good. He may have very well posted this story in several different threads but THIS thread is the only one that I have seen it in....so it's new to me. Since you seem to be an expert on this subject, how about you enlightening the rest of us to the events that transpired that ultimately got this man convicted.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV XD9 View Post


    Person 1: That house is blue.
    Person 2: Blue or red?
    Person 1: I don't know - what did I just say?
    I would assume that most members on this forum would not confuse the color red with the color blue. But they do however sometimes confuse "convicted with charged", "bench trial with jury trial", "arrested with detained",etc, etc. The type of very simple scenario that you just gave isn't out of the ordinary and probably wouldn't peak anyone's interest. There are all kinds of blue houses in the world. But if I posted that I was held at gunpoint and 3 members of my family were killed by LEO because I was wearing white shoes.....well, that story is just a little more complex than a story of a blue house.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I doubt a "simple" search would have done much good.
    The reality is that it would have. I just tried it and found several threads. It's really not that hard, if you care enough to put forth the tiniest bit of effort.

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    plan to be arrested - having one is good

    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I would assume that most members on this forum would not confuse the color red with the color blue. But they do however sometimes confuse "convicted with charged", "bench trial with jury trial", "arrested with detained",etc, etc. The type of very simple scenario that you just gave isn't out of the ordinary and probably wouldn't peak anyone's interest. There are all kinds of blue houses in the world. But if I posted that I was held at gunpoint and 3 members of my family were killed by LEO because I was wearing white shoes.....well, that story is just a little more complex than a story of a blue house.
    Good job explaining the failure of his silly analogy.


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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Re: plan to be arrested - having one is good

    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    The type of very simple scenario that you just gave isn't out of the ordinary and probably wouldn't peak anyone's interest.
    "Peak" anyone's interest or "pique" anyone's interest? Please clarify.

    (Sorry, couldn't resist...)


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Good job explaining the failure of his silly analogy.


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    A real man doesn't have to hide behind an ignore list, making childish little digs. How pathetic.

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