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Thread: Marion, NC City Ordinance

  1. #1
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    Marion, NC City Ordinance

    New guy here. I would like some help with this city ordinance. This is from Marion, NC taken from www.marionnc.org municipal codes.

    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.d...egal:marion_nc

    Sec. 11-1. Display of firearms prohibited.

    (a) It shall be unlawful to display on the person any firearm on the streets, sidewalks, alleys or other public property within the city except as follows:

    (1) When a firearm is being transported for repair or sale;

    (2) When a firearm is carried by an on duty member of the national guard.

    (b) No firearm carried or transported pursuant to the exceptions of this section shall be loaded under any circumstances.

    (c) This section is not intended to apply to law enforcement personnel who are authorized to carry a weapon in the performance of their official duties.

    As I understand this is in direct violation of my constitutional rights. However, before I run off and try to defend my rights I would like to ask a LOT of questions and will probably seek the advice of lawyers in the area before doing anything Rash and Life Altering

    I welcome all input and advice.
    Thank You in advance.

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    Interesting as I thought we were allowed to carry just about everywhere. Didn't know that Marion was banned.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klemorali View Post
    New guy here. I would like some help with this city ordinance. This is from Marion, NC taken from www.marionnc.org municipal codes.

    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.d...egal:marion_nc

    Sec. 11-1. Display of firearms prohibited.

    (a) It shall be unlawful to display on the person any firearm on the streets, sidewalks, alleys or other public property within the city except as follows:

    (1) When a firearm is being transported for repair or sale;

    (2) When a firearm is carried by an on duty member of the national guard.

    (b) No firearm carried or transported pursuant to the exceptions of this section shall be loaded under any circumstances.

    (c) This section is not intended to apply to law enforcement personnel who are authorized to carry a weapon in the performance of their official duties.

    As I understand this is in direct violation of my constitutional rights. However, before I run off and try to defend my rights I would like to ask a LOT of questions and will probably seek the advice of lawyers in the area before doing anything Rash and Life Altering

    I welcome all input and advice.
    Thank You in advance.
    It should be trumped by state-wide preemption laws. Only a select few locations were exempted when preemption took effect (such as Durham County's handgun registration laws). I'm pretty sure Marion's municipal codes were not granted immunity from state preemption. For one, state law does not consider the fact that a handgun is loaded or not. This regulation does, clearly conflicting with the lack of a state law against it.

    Despite what Marion, NC may think, openly carrying a firearm is not a crime.

    The town of Cary had a similar set of laws but were forced to changed them due to preemption last year. It's now no longer against city code to carry openly on sidewalks, etc.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 11-30-2012 at 11:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    It should be trumped by state-wide preemption laws. Only a select few locations were exempted when preemption took effect (such as Durham County's handgun registration laws). I'm pretty sure Marion's municipal codes were not granted immunity from state preemption. For one, state law does not consider the fact that a handgun is loaded or not. This regulation does, clearly conflicting with the lack of a state law against it.

    Despite what Marion, NC may think, openly carrying a firearm is not a crime.

    The town of Cary had a similar set of laws but were forced to changed them due to preemption last year. It's now no longer against city code to carry openly on sidewalks, etc.
    I have contacted the city manager and respectfully asked for a review of compliance with the preemption laws. I was then informed that violation results in a city citation ( much akin to a parking ticket) that can only be appealed to the city council. I also questioned how many if any citations for this had ever been issued. I was informed that in the 12 years Bob had been working as the city manager no one has ever been ticketed, thus no one has ever appealed. He promised to search the records and see if anyone had ever been charged with violating the ordinance. So far it seems promising [Read as Hope Monkey] that this may be changed without involving a lawyer or protest of any kind. I'll be looking up when the city council is meeting and plan a visit to discuss this issue in person if it that becomes necessary. I'm also reaching out to some of the business owners I'm familiar with in the area. I am unaware of any businesses in the town that are posted, though I have not done a door to door search.

    From what I have read on this site and the regulations I have read for myself (thanks mostly to the wonderful references provided by so many people on here.) I can't imagine that the ordinance would hold up if ever properly challenged. So for now I'm just hoping to clear up some very confusing literature on the city website. I would appreciate any advice or experience with attempting this sort of thing. That would include the opinions of people who found it to be a complete waste of time and effort.
    Last edited by Klemorali; 12-01-2012 at 11:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klemorali View Post
    I have contacted the city manager and respectfully asked for a review of compliance with the preemption laws. I was then informed that violation results in a city citation ( much akin to a parking ticket) that can only be appealed to the city council. I also questioned how many if any citations for this had ever been issued. I was informed that in the 12 years Bob had been working as the city manager no one has ever been ticketed, thus no one has ever appealed. He promised to search the records and see if anyone had ever been charged with violating the ordinance. So far it seems promising [Read as Hope Monkey] that this may be changed without involving a lawyer or protest of any kind. I'll be looking up when the city council is meeting and plan a visit to discuss this issue in person if it that becomes necessary. I'm also reaching out to some of the business owners I'm familiar with in the area. I am unaware of any businesses in the town that are posted, though I have not done a door to door search.

    From what I have read on this site and the regulations I have read for myself (thanks mostly to the wonderful references provided by so many people on here.) I can't imagine that the ordinance would hold up if ever properly challenged. So for now I'm just hoping to clear up some very confusing literature on the city website. I would appreciate any advice or experience with attempting this sort of thing. That would include the opinions of people who found it to be a complete waste of time and effort.
    Hi Klemorali. I'm a Firearms Instructor here in Nebo, NC (at Lake James). I've never have run into a problem while open carrying in Marion, although, I have talked to a couple students that had. All that happen is the officer told them "you can't do that anymore". I would also love to attend and discuss this issue at a council meeting. I have a couple of City officers come and take my Intermediate combative Carbine & pistol classes & they have never cited anyone for it.

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    Thanks for the update

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostMaker. View Post
    Hi Klemorali. I'm a Firearms Instructor here in Nebo, NC (at Lake James). I've never have run into a problem while open carrying in Marion, although, I have talked to a couple students that had. All that happen is the officer told them "you can't do that anymore". I would also love to attend and discuss this issue at a council meeting. I have a couple of City officers come and take my Intermediate combative Carbine & pistol classes & they have never cited anyone for it.
    Sorry for the long delay, Christmas time being the busy time that it is with my family.

    I appreciate the info, when I do visit town again I will be carrying and we'll just see what (if anything) is said. I never did hear back from the city after my request. I called them up to question them and got a curt reply that they would get back to me. I'm scheduled to head out of town again soon, but I'll be checking the calendar for the next council meeting and trying to schedule time off for it. It could all be for naught when you consider the AWB being proposed in Washington, but I ca't recall ever giving up on something just because someone decided to flaunt their ignorance (or stupidity). I'll throw up another reply if/when I get my schedule lined up

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Hey KLEM. i just sent a message to Paul Valone to see what he thinks of it. but it seems to me to be an illegal ordinance.

    seems to me we need a meet and greet in Marion. can you suggest a place that is very public?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Meeting in Marion, NC

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Hey KLEM. i just sent a message to Paul Valone to see what he thinks of it. but it seems to me to be an illegal ordinance.

    seems to me we need a meet and greet in Marion. can you suggest a place that is very public?
    There are a few options there. My first go to would be "Bruce's Fabulous Foods" the owner's are friends of the family, It is right on Main Street within a block of the courthouse, and is frequented by members of the local government. Outside of that there are plenty of local places, though mostly off the beaten path. Second on my list would be Country Side Bar-B-Que which our Commander in Joke visited during his run for office, there is a bit of sweet justice to that, though it is one of the more likely places we might be asked to leave. Third would be The Steak House, it was previously a Western Sizzlin and the last I knew the owners were very gun friendly. I can't think of any other eateries that are well known or well connected that do not serve alcohol. I'm uncertain if Country Side is inside the City Limits or not, I've never actually looked to see where the signs are on that side of the city. I'll speak with my wife who is far more familiar with the ins and outs of local affairs and post an update if she has any better suggestions.

    I've confirmed with my employer that I will be traveling out of state Jan 6th for an undetermined length of time. I'll know more about when I could attend a few days after arrival. However, anything prior to that is acceptable. I might even get my wife to attend the meeting if her schedule doesn't conflict.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    sounds like some good choices. let's figure it out

    Paul sent back a email saying that we could be arrested . I'm willing to go to a board meeting also.

    it would be good if GRNC would be with us. but maybe we can get enough people to make a dent
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Date and Time depending I can bring myself and 2 others. I'll start contacting some of my friends in the area. I'm reasonably certain I can get 1 more, I'll post back with numbers and propose a date/time most likely mid/late next week. I'd prefer a lunch time meeting (1100-1300hrs) as I believe it would have the most impact and/or garner the most attention. If there is a better time of day, please let me know.

    My wife and I were out today at the local Wal-Mart (which is inside the city limits) OCing without incident.

    I'm curious as to whether or not we could be arrested inside of a business inside the city limits. The ordinance makes no mention of private businesses being precluded.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    sounds like some good choices. let's figure it out

    Paul sent back a email saying that we could be arrested . I'm willing to go to a board meeting also.

    it would be good if GRNC would be with us. but maybe we can get enough people to make a dent
    Paul's personally giving out legal advice now through third parties...wow!!

    I am amazed...

    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-29-2012 at 11:46 PM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    WABBIT i would send you a copy but i deleted it almost as soon as i got it. i have heard from some others and they were shocked that there was a city in NC that would do this.

    KLEM we might have to go next to the city limits. just so we can avoid arrest, but i would contact some of the local news to maybe get some attention
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    KLEM we might have to go next to the city limits. just so we can avoid arrest, but i would contact some of the local news to maybe get some attention
    I'll have to take a ride around town this week to see what eateries are outside of the city limits. At current there is not a city council meeting scheduled until the last tuesday of January as they canceled the meeting scheduled for tuesday (just looked a few hours ago). I shot off another email to the city manager expressing my dislike for being left high and dry on his promised response and I requested the date/time of the next meeting when they get around to scheduling it.

    On another note I'm wondering what all the dislike regarding GRNC is about?? I've read some of the rants, but I must say every time I've encountered GRNC in the local area the volunteers where all OCing?? Don't mistake me for defending anyone, I'm new to the community and OC all together. Should there be some contact with GRNC for a council meeting? Should I make contact with the organization as a fresh face or should I leave it in the hands of papa and others who appear to have contacts and a working relationship? My concern is getting my home town on the right track and what I can do to make it happen

    Thanks for all the support so far. It's greatly appreciated and truly great welcome into this community

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i am a supporter and a member of GRNC. i work the tables when i can, and like all the guys i work with. i do get aggravated at their secrecy and some times the defeatist attitude they have. it is a good organization, and it is effective in getting local things (as in Raleigh )

    please keep pushing the issue, i will help all i can. be careful whom you take with you to these meetings. i have been torpedoed before by who i thought were pro-gun people
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    I received a response back from Bob (city manager) a few moments ago.

    He has informed me that the next 3 city council meetings are Jan 15 (1900hrs), Feb 5, and Feb 19. He has asked which meeting would be best for a discussion on the topic and has encouraged me to provide some background material relevant to the discussion. We need to provide 1 week of notice to be placed on the agenda. He also mentions that the ordinance has been around since 1982 and that there are no charges on record for violation of the ordinance. I find it odd that later sections specifically reference GS 14-409 and changes have been made in those sections, but this one was overlooked.

    At this time I don't feel that meet and greet would serve well as a protest, but I'm still interested in a gathering to discuss the issue and a plan of action. I'm open to suggestions outside of the county, morganton, hickory, asheville, or another location where we might garner the most people to help.

    I will not be able to attend a meeting on January 15th as I must be in Florida for my Job. I may be able to attend a meeting in February, but I will need to make arrangements with my employer in advance. I will speak with members of my family and close friends to see if any of them would be able/willing to attend a meeting on January 15. Would it be possible to organize a group from this site, GRNC, or another organization friendly to the cause by the 15th? I don't like the idea of sending other people to finish something I have started, but I'm also not foolish enough to believe that I can do it better than someone who has made a similar argument to a city council before. I will post regarding which February meeting I would be able to attend late next week after I have put boots on the ground in Florida.

    I have retained and am willing to forward all of my communications with Bob for anyone who might be able to help in seeing this ordinance altered. I have not mentioned this before, but I am beginning to think it might be an opportunity to alter the bans in place on the parks in Marion.

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