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Thread: Ihop anti-2a??

  1. #1
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    I posted briefly about this in the hampton roads topic, but I think it needs wider attention than that.

    Tonight, I had dinner with my family at ihop, and as I was entering ihop, I noticed a no guns sign. (This includes ALL weapons) I ignored the sign and went inside. I enjoyed my meal without harassment, and before I left I asked for their corporate number.

    I was then Approached by an assistant manager and asked if he could be of assistance. We went to a closed portion of the restaurant and I told him I was concerned about the sign out front, and that OC there frequently and have never seen the sign or had problems.

    According to the manager, they had received a corporate level complaint from a customer that a group of OCers were dining there, and the sight of the guns frightened their young child. The couple with the children left.

    I got the following contact information from the manager

    Steve Brown - manager
    Cell: 757-359-7330
    Restaurant - 757-455-2880

    1295 North Military Hwy
    Norfolk, VA 23502

    How should we proceed with this? I told the assistant manager that if I complained that a black man sitting next to me scared me, he would not post a sign saying "no blacks allowed". By the same token, discriminating against another group of law abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed. Click image for larger version. 

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    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  2. #2
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    sight of the guns frightened their young child
    maybe the children should complain about cops when they see them walking in their school hall ways.

    Also, they should probably remove their parking lot, because you know all those cars are weapons of 2 tons.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 11-30-2012 at 09:50 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    How should we proceed with this? Click image for larger version. 

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    Very carefully and tactfully...at first anyway. Sounds like it can be salvaged.

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    If one person complained about the sight of LAC with firearms scaring them to the point they decided to leave. Then I think a complaint bomb from people like ourselves with the general message of no guns no money should work. Given their response from one person who decided to leave I don't see why they wouldn't revert their policy after seeing the threat of loosing a greater amount of money. I'm no a seasoned as a lot of people on here, but that's my two cents.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I believe that most (all?) are franchise operations.

    Never had a problem OCing in IHOPS in Richmond - there are several and I have been to each from time to time. I prefer the one on Midlothian next to VSP headquarters. Wonder if they'll ever go back to using their "smoking room" for that purpose on the week-end.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I believe that most (all?) are franchise operations.

    Never had a problem OCing in IHOPS in Richmond - there are several and I have been to each from time to time. I prefer the one on Midlothian next to VSP headquarters. Wonder if they'll ever go back to using their "smoking room" for that purpose on the week-end.
    I have OCed several times at my local ones with no problem. This seems to be a recent complaint. I am going to call the manager tomorrow, and see if I can't work something out. I would just like some tips on what to say to him
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Oh, man. I love IHOP.

    Never had a problem in one of their stores.

    Of course, my rugged good looks and wonderful personality go a long ways.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    .......and as I was entering ihop, I noticed a no guns sign. (This includes ALL weapons) I ignored the sign and went inside. .....................

    How should we proceed with this?
    Next time, obey the sign and take your business elsewhere. Disregarding the sign was a mistake.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I have OCed several times at my local ones with no problem. This seems to be a recent complaint. I am going to call the manager tomorrow, and see if I can't work something out. I would just like some tips on what to say to him
    I wouldn't call. I would go in person during a slow period--avoiding breakfast, lunch, supper.

    Use whatever rapport you've developed as a customer and just tell him you would like to continue eating there.

    Also, you could point out to corporate that the signs have little legal status--they have to call the police anyway and the cop has to witness the refusal to leave (or whatever the exact evidentiary rules the courts follow on trespass). And, troublesome customers or criminals aren't going to pay attention to them. Far better for them if they take down the sign and handle each situation as it comes up.

    Separately, point out in so many words that guns do not emit fear-waves. If a child is scared, its because of what he was taught by parents and school, for which a different costumer was penalized.

    You can also just gently ask the manager who he would prefer to have as a customer: a person who doesn't even take responsibility for being able to defend themselves or their children, or one who is trained and could, god-forbid, defend every patron if something really bad were to happen.

    One of these days I'm gonna get a T-shirt that says "Mobile Crime-Free Zone."
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-30-2012 at 10:54 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I OC at the Ashburn and Sterling Ihop's all the time..
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Ok I went back to ihop today. The general manager wasn't there, but I spoke to his assistant.

    I found the corporate policy on the Internet and printed a copy. Their official policy is to follow state law. I left that with the assistant, and he said Mr. Brown will follow up with me by Monday.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  12. #12
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    IHOP is one of my favorite places, I kinda doubt it is corporate. I doubt a company would change nationwide policy over one complaint.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I am not sure of the kind of response I will get from the manager, so I sent an email to IHOP corporate as well, and the confirmation they sent me said I can expect a reply from them within 3-5 days. So this is where we stand.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    I have actually had a conversation with the GM at this location about this very issue. It turns out that they were robbed awhile back, and the robber supposedly paraded the employees around the store at gunpoint. I believe he did say someone was shot and killed. Anyway, regardless of the details, this robbery is the cause of the sign. The manager seemed to understand my position, but seemed caught between out rights and the fears of his staff. His staff's fears won. He stated that he did not want to put up the sign, but his employees were too afraid to come to work if he didn't.

    I have walked right past the sign OCing on several occasions and never once noticed it. It is not in plain sight for sure.
    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
    ~Sigmund Freud

  15. #15
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    I have actually had a conversation with the GM at this location about this very issue. It turns out that they were robbed awhile back, and the robber supposedly paraded the employees around the store at gunpoint. I believe he did say someone was shot and killed. Anyway, regardless of the details, this robbery is the cause of the sign. The manager seemed to understand my position, but seemed caught between out rights and the fears of his staff. His staff's fears won. He stated that he did not want to put up the sign, but his employees were too afraid to come to work if he didn't.

    I have walked right past the sign OCing on several occasions and never once noticed it. It is not in plain sight for sure.
    While I understand his employees fears, it does not give someone license to break the rules. In this case I am referring to the corporate policy of following state law.

    But at any rate, would a gun-buster sign have stopped that robbery? No.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    I have actually had a conversation with the GM at this location about this very issue. It turns out that they were robbed awhile back, and the robber supposedly paraded the employees around the store at gunpoint. I believe he did say someone was shot and killed. Anyway, regardless of the details, this robbery is the cause of the sign. The manager seemed to understand my position, but seemed caught between out rights and the fears of his staff. His staff's fears won. He stated that he did not want to put up the sign, but his employees were too afraid to come to work if he didn't.

    I have walked right past the sign OCing on several occasions and never once noticed it. It is not in plain sight for sure.
    I've heard that story before:
    http://news.oldva.org/?p=1262

    The company response:
    http://news.oldva.org/?p=1281

    The result:
    http://news.oldva.org/?p=1365

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    I have actually had a conversation with the GM at this location about this very issue. It turns out that they were robbed awhile back, and the robber supposedly paraded the employees around the store at gunpoint. I believe he did say someone was shot and killed. Anyway, regardless of the details, this robbery is the cause of the sign. The manager seemed to understand my position, but seemed caught between out rights and the fears of his staff. His staff's fears won. He stated that he did not want to put up the sign, but his employees were too afraid to come to work if he didn't.

    I have walked right past the sign OCing on several occasions and never once noticed it. It is not in plain sight for sure.
    Somebody needs to get a OC group to that location to show employees that OCers WOULD prevent such a robbery in the first place. If possible print up some flyers for the employees, invite them to this site. The employees should feel safer with OC LAC regularly doing business. In fact you should suggest they put up a 2A welcome sign, and maybe host regular OC get together for the BG's to see that their customers are not victims.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Re: Ihop anti-2a??

    I hope not...i have a figure to maintain...er..i..mean lose..

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  19. #19
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Well I like the idea of a get- together at IHOP once the sign comes down. I'm actually very certain that it will, I just need to wait for next week. These things take time I suppose.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  20. #20
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Also a quick google search turns up NO information on this IHOP being robbed or anyone shot and killed. I think this story is a fabrication on management's part, and conflicts with the story told to me by the assistant manager.
    ETA: I did find this, but notice the date. http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...ing-in-norfolk
    And also note that the shooting occurred outside and no one was "paraded around." Just another reason to carry everywhere, everyday.
    Last edited by Esanders2008; 12-02-2012 at 11:53 AM. Reason: added link
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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Owned by the same person

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Also a quick google search turns up NO information on this IHOP being robbed or anyone shot and killed. I think this story is a fabrication on management's part, and conflicts with the story told to me by the assistant manager.
    ETA: I did find this, but notice the date. http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...ing-in-norfolk
    And also note that the shooting occurred outside and no one was "paraded around." Just another reason to carry everywhere, everyday.
    I had the same issue with the IHOP on Warwick Blvd I posted all about it in the Hampton Roads Thread.

    I spoke with the Manager and the Owner and both gave me the same song and Dance. Although I have verbal permission to CC at his restaurants. I will not eat there again.

    The owner of the my IHOP said his other IHOP (your Ihop) he had to post no guns, he also related a story of a CCer that tried to help foil a robbery killed a bystander. (didn't buy it for a second)..
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Also a quick google search turns up NO information on this IHOP being robbed or anyone shot and killed. I think this story is a fabrication on management's part, and conflicts with the story told to me by the assistant manager.
    ETA: I did find this, but notice the date. http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...ing-in-norfolk
    And also note that the shooting occurred outside and no one was "paraded around." Just another reason to carry everywhere, everyday.
    That is exactly what he told me about his IHOP in newport news. That the staff was Paraded all around the restaurant and terrorized by the gunman. So much that the Staff can not bear the sight of a gun...

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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  23. #23
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Ihop anti-2a??

    Well I will get to the bottom of this. Just waiting on corporate. Time will tell friends.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeflight View Post
    I had the same issue with the IHOP on Warwick Blvd I posted all about it in the Hampton Roads Thread.

    --snip--
    I think maybe he exaggerated just a little, tiny bit.

    "The most recent robbery happened about 2:40 a.m. Wednesday at the IHOP located at 15447 Warwick Blvd., police wrote in a news release. Three men demanded cash and fled."
    http://hamptonroads.com/2012/03/newp...ihop-robberies
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    There will be no help from Corporate

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Well I will get to the bottom of this. Just waiting on corporate. Time will tell friends.
    These stores are franchise stores and corporate policy is no good, the franchisee can decide about firearms...(I talked to corporate too and this is what they told me)

    But perhaps you will get farther than I did with them...
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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