Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 67

Thread: Quote of the Day: Always Question Authority Edition

  1. #1
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763

    Quote of the Day: Always Question Authority Edition



    "Always question authority, when that police officer stops you, question his authority, ask why you were stopped, after you get the ticket go to the court and ask for the evidence against you, if he can't prove you broke the law anything he cites you for will be dismissed, It's his job to prove you did something. It's important that you never take what your elected officials say for granted, always make sure they back up their promises and positions with action"

    -Walt Washington, Kitsap County Auditor at my poli sci class this morning

    Walt Washington was giving a presentation to my local government class at Olympic College in Bremerton, he got sidetracked between talking about how his office manages elections and vehicle licensing and gave us this tangent to consider...

    I wish so badly I hadn't forgotten my tape recorder (I don't believe in digital, I keep an analog set-up with actual tape) with me so I could've recorded that. but it's reassuring to hear some government officials say stuff like that, now he needs to run for sheriff...
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-30-2012 at 09:14 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769
    UUhh Gee Eric, it is called "DISCOVERY"...been around for a lot longer than you.

  3. #3
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    UUhh Gee Eric, it is called "DISCOVERY"...been around for a lot longer than you.
    I'm well aware of discovery, the entire point of the quote in context was a government official instructing college students to use their rights and flex them against officers of another elected department.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Now cops treat blacks pretty poorly (more are incarcerated today than all those in slavery in pre-civil war times) ... so I think a white guy can get away with "why you stop me" attitude .. but a black guy is going to feel a billy club aside his hear for questioning the po po.

    I was just talking with a black guy who plead guilty to a misdemeanor and he told me his story and it was clear he was not guilty of anything .. but the DA said that the police told them a much different version and offered him a non-jail time plea. He took it ... so I told him, you just plead guilty and he said that's not what the DA told him which was that its a plea bargain, not a guilty plea. I checked -- he was found guilty (of course).

    One does not argue the law curbside .. you do it in court. Take your ticket, get placed under arrest and go to court and fight there.

    This guy means well but he's an idiot.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    One does not argue the law curbside .. you do it in court. Take your ticket, get placed under arrest and go to court and fight there.
    On the other hand, if the cop who pulled you over gets caught on his dash recorder saying why he stopped you and it's not a valid reason for a stop, it can make arguing the law in a court room a lot easier. If he had no cause to stop you, then anything he sees on the floor of the car or that a dog alerts to during the stop is probably inadmissible, since he would not have been in a position to discover it if he had not violated the law.

    It gets even easier to argue in court if the paperwork he files later disagrees with what he says on camera. An officer can act only on what he knows at the time of an arrest, traffic stop or citation. If he had no RAS or probable cause to do so then and admits it on camera, he can't fill in the blanks or edit the record back at the station.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    On the other hand, if the cop who pulled you over gets caught on his dash recorder saying why he stopped you and it's not a valid reason for a stop, it can make arguing the law in a court room a lot easier. If he had no cause to stop you, then anything he sees on the floor of the car or that a dog alerts to during the stop is probably inadmissible, since he would not have been in a position to discover it if he had not violated the law.

    It gets even easier to argue in court if the paperwork he files later disagrees with what he says on camera. An officer can act only on what he knows at the time of an arrest, traffic stop or citation. If he had no RAS or probable cause to do so then and admits it on camera, he can't fill in the blanks or edit the record back at the station.
    Tell that to Ian Birk...
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Tell that to Ian Birk...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnKLEOXenow

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...of-woodcarver/

    he got away with murder
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-01-2012 at 03:24 PM.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    "Always question authority, when that police officer stops you, question his authority, ask why you were stopped, after you get the ticket go to the court and ask for the evidence against you, if he can't prove you broke the law anything he cites you for will be dismissed, It's his job to prove you did something. It's important that you never take what your elected officials say for granted, always make sure they back up their promises and positions with action"

    -Walt Washington, Kitsap County Auditor at my poli sci class this morning

    Walt Washington was giving a presentation to my local government class at Olympic College in Bremerton, he got sidetracked between talking about how his office manages elections and vehicle licensing and gave us this tangent to consider...

    I wish so badly I hadn't forgotten my tape recorder (I don't believe in digital, I keep an analog set-up with actual tape) with me so I could've recorded that. but it's reassuring to hear some government officials say stuff like that, now he needs to run for sheriff...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    UUhh Gee Eric, it is called "DISCOVERY"...been around for a lot longer than you.
    Correct, but what I get from this is....most people are intimidated by the system. They don't know how to ask for discovery for a simple speeding infraction. I would encourage everyone, every time to 'contest' (not guilty) any infraction they get, get discovery and then decide the appropriate course of action. Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)
    Live Free or Die!

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Yes he did and was told by a responding officer he did the right thing.
    Hence my shirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Correct, but what I get from this is....most people are intimidated by the system. They don't know how to ask for discovery for a simple speeding infraction. I would encourage everyone, every time to 'contest' (not guilty) any infraction they get, get discovery and then decide the appropriate course of action. Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)
    I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

    (My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

    I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yes he did and was told by a responding officer he did the right thing.
    Hence my shirt.



    I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

    (My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

    I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.
    Well Russ Hauge, the Kitsap County prosecutor came to my class several weeks ago (all of the elected officials of our county government came in, except the coroner who sent one his deputies instead) And Hauge admitted that his officer "over-charged" people to leverage plea deals, and that he had to put pressure on people because Washington requires trials to take place within 60 days of arrest or something like that, so he basically admitted what you just said, that his office has no way to prosecute near as many people who are arrested or cited

    Now, if we can just file a 14th amendment action to incorporate the requirement for grand juries against the state I think we'd see even fewer prosecutions for low-profile cases... since Washington doesn't routinely use a GJ
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post



    I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

    (My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

    I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.
    People are lazy and they know it. People will not spend the money to fight. I have a lawyer that tyakes care of tickets for $500 I will gladly spend the money if I can not do it myself.

    I read the other day that the Border Patrol is experiencing a huge increase in people that are not cooperating, refusing to answer questions and are asking if they are free to go, good on them. I believe this is a direct responce to ever increasing pressure by the authorities.

    A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.

    I salute you and Gogodawgs and all the others that stand firm.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post

    A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.
    When I have a question for my representatives and they don't answer ... I'm at their home knocking on their door ... they love it

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    People are lazy and they know it. People will not spend the money to fight. I have a lawyer that tyakes care of tickets for $500 I will gladly spend the money if I can not do it myself.

    I read the other day that the Border Patrol is experiencing a huge increase in people that are not cooperating, refusing to answer questions and are asking if they are free to go, good on them. I believe this is a direct responce to ever increasing pressure by the authorities.

    A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.

    I salute you and Gogodawgs and all the others that stand firm.
    And I salute you sir.

    I don't have much money to fight , but realized simply not pleaing out puts the pressure on them.

    I was going to make jury nullification my next letter to the editor, I think I'll write about this simple method instead.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 12-02-2012 at 07:45 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Of course there's another option.

    Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  15. #15
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)
    I tried using my acronym finder for IRLJ, and it returned, "Nothing found." Please define.

    Also, where does one look to learn the rules of the court?

    I'm totally in agreement with challenging the government, always! Well done, gogodawgs.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I tried using my acronym finder for IRLJ, and it returned, "Nothing found." Please define.

    Also, where does one look to learn the rules of the court?

    I'm totally in agreement with challenging the government, always! Well done, gogodawgs.
    Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules...p=clj&set=IRLJ

    Other court rules:

    http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules...tate&group=clj
    Live Free or Die!

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Of course there's another option.

    Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.
    Assimlate! Resistance is futile!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Of course there's another option.

    Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.
    That is a given, I have not had a traffic ticket for 35 years and have not been arrested for 30 years give or take. Doesn't mean I have not sped, doesn't mean I will always behave in a manner that the authorities accept as reasonable, legal yes. You never know, I was arrested once when a Cop asked me where I was going and I pointed at a friend and said with him, how was I to know they were about to arrest Mike. Disturbing the peace is easy to beat when you are in a bar with a rock and roll band going full bore.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 12-02-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Better yet we revitalize our common law legal foundations, and stop unconstitutional malum prohibitum policing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Of course there's another option.

    Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    That is a given, I have not had a traffic ticket for 35 years and have not been arrested for 30 years give or take.
    See, it's not that hard.

    But then what would there be to bitch about if everyone did it?



    BTW, "Arrested"? Is there a story there?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post



    BTW, "Arrested"? Is there a story there?
    Yep, last two sentences of my last post. Stone sober I might add, I had just got off work walked into the bar and a Cop started asking me questions 30 seconds later I was cuffed and searched. I still have the receipt from Hy Phillips Bail Bonds it cost me $11.20 to get out of jail that night. Got hit with a night stick while cuffed and tripped and pushed into the van they transported us to jail in. They arrested 12 of us that night one of us had a hand cuff key and we handed the Cops their cuffs when we got out of the van at the jail. Judge tossed the charges out at the first court date. 2 of my buddies ended up with substantial settlements for being assaulted by the Cops in custody. I was subjected to felony stops for about 2 weeks after the arrest on an almost daily basis. I have never trusted a Cop since. I do not hate Cops but I will never trust one again they are not your friend ever.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 12-02-2012 at 12:33 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Of course there's another option.
    Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.
    Even when that behavior is entirely legal and innocuous, Amlevin?

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Assimlate! Resistance is futile!
    Ahhhhhhh ! +1

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richland, Washington, USA
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules...p=clj&set=IRLJ

    Other court rules:

    http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules...tate&group=clj
    Thanks for posting up the links. It is important to follow the information provided by the IRLJ. Last ticket I got, I contested. Just my luck I ended up being the last case heard so I got to watch everyone else that contested thier ticket first. In everyone else's case, they argued the ticket by saying they didn't see the speed limit sign, were not from around there, ect. Everyone else had thier ticket upheld and fine increased to reflect court costs.

    I had requested discovery following the IRLJ procedure exactly, and the state failed to deliver discovery to me at all. My case was dismissed within a matter of minutes. Judge didn't even bother reading the officer's statement (which I did want to hear since it was never provided to me).

    I agree you should contest every ticket, but just remember you need to do a little more work than just check the box to contest the ticket if you want it dismissed.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayd1981 View Post
    Thanks for posting up the links. It is important to follow the information provided by the IRLJ. Last ticket I got, I contested. Just my luck I ended up being the last case heard so I got to watch everyone else that contested thier ticket first. In everyone else's case, they argued the ticket by saying they didn't see the speed limit sign, were not from around there, ect. Everyone else had thier ticket upheld and fine increased to reflect court costs.

    I had requested discovery following the IRLJ procedure exactly, and the state failed to deliver discovery to me at all. My case was dismissed within a matter of minutes. Judge didn't even bother reading the officer's statement (which I did want to hear since it was never provided to me).

    I agree you should contest every ticket, but just remember you need to do a little more work than just check the box to contest the ticket if you want it dismissed.
    Correct and if anyone ever wants a form to request discovery, just PM me.
    Live Free or Die!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •