• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Quote of the Day: Always Question Authority Edition

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
252148918_640.jpg


"Always question authority, when that police officer stops you, question his authority, ask why you were stopped, after you get the ticket go to the court and ask for the evidence against you, if he can't prove you broke the law anything he cites you for will be dismissed, It's his job to prove you did something. It's important that you never take what your elected officials say for granted, always make sure they back up their promises and positions with action"

-Walt Washington, Kitsap County Auditor at my poli sci class this morning

Walt Washington was giving a presentation to my local government class at Olympic College in Bremerton, he got sidetracked between talking about how his office manages elections and vehicle licensing and gave us this tangent to consider...

I wish so badly I hadn't forgotten my tape recorder (I don't believe in digital, I keep an analog set-up with actual tape) with me so I could've recorded that. but it's reassuring to hear some government officials say stuff like that, now he needs to run for sheriff...
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Now cops treat blacks pretty poorly (more are incarcerated today than all those in slavery in pre-civil war times) ... so I think a white guy can get away with "why you stop me" attitude .. but a black guy is going to feel a billy club aside his hear for questioning the po po.

I was just talking with a black guy who plead guilty to a misdemeanor and he told me his story and it was clear he was not guilty of anything .. but the DA said that the police told them a much different version and offered him a non-jail time plea. He took it ... so I told him, you just plead guilty and he said that's not what the DA told him which was that its a plea bargain, not a guilty plea. I checked -- he was found guilty (of course).

One does not argue the law curbside .. you do it in court. Take your ticket, get placed under arrest and go to court and fight there.

This guy means well but he's an idiot.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
One does not argue the law curbside .. you do it in court. Take your ticket, get placed under arrest and go to court and fight there.

On the other hand, if the cop who pulled you over gets caught on his dash recorder saying why he stopped you and it's not a valid reason for a stop, it can make arguing the law in a court room a lot easier. If he had no cause to stop you, then anything he sees on the floor of the car or that a dog alerts to during the stop is probably inadmissible, since he would not have been in a position to discover it if he had not violated the law.

It gets even easier to argue in court if the paperwork he files later disagrees with what he says on camera. An officer can act only on what he knows at the time of an arrest, traffic stop or citation. If he had no RAS or probable cause to do so then and admits it on camera, he can't fill in the blanks or edit the record back at the station.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
On the other hand, if the cop who pulled you over gets caught on his dash recorder saying why he stopped you and it's not a valid reason for a stop, it can make arguing the law in a court room a lot easier. If he had no cause to stop you, then anything he sees on the floor of the car or that a dog alerts to during the stop is probably inadmissible, since he would not have been in a position to discover it if he had not violated the law.

It gets even easier to argue in court if the paperwork he files later disagrees with what he says on camera. An officer can act only on what he knows at the time of an arrest, traffic stop or citation. If he had no RAS or probable cause to do so then and admits it on camera, he can't fill in the blanks or edit the record back at the station.

Tell that to Ian Birk...:eek:
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
"Always question authority, when that police officer stops you, question his authority, ask why you were stopped, after you get the ticket go to the court and ask for the evidence against you, if he can't prove you broke the law anything he cites you for will be dismissed, It's his job to prove you did something. It's important that you never take what your elected officials say for granted, always make sure they back up their promises and positions with action"

-Walt Washington, Kitsap County Auditor at my poli sci class this morning

Walt Washington was giving a presentation to my local government class at Olympic College in Bremerton, he got sidetracked between talking about how his office manages elections and vehicle licensing and gave us this tangent to consider...

I wish so badly I hadn't forgotten my tape recorder (I don't believe in digital, I keep an analog set-up with actual tape) with me so I could've recorded that. but it's reassuring to hear some government officials say stuff like that, now he needs to run for sheriff...

UUhh Gee Eric, it is called "DISCOVERY"...been around for a lot longer than you.

Correct, but what I get from this is....most people are intimidated by the system. They don't know how to ask for discovery for a simple speeding infraction. I would encourage everyone, every time to 'contest' (not guilty) any infraction they get, get discovery and then decide the appropriate course of action. Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County

Yes he did and was told by a responding officer he did the right thing.
Hence my shirt.

Correct, but what I get from this is....most people are intimidated by the system. They don't know how to ask for discovery for a simple speeding infraction. I would encourage everyone, every time to 'contest' (not guilty) any infraction they get, get discovery and then decide the appropriate course of action. Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)

I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

(My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
Yes he did and was told by a responding officer he did the right thing.
Hence my shirt.



I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

(My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.

Well Russ Hauge, the Kitsap County prosecutor came to my class several weeks ago (all of the elected officials of our county government came in, except the coroner who sent one his deputies instead) And Hauge admitted that his officer "over-charged" people to leverage plea deals, and that he had to put pressure on people because Washington requires trials to take place within 60 days of arrest or something like that, so he basically admitted what you just said, that his office has no way to prosecute near as many people who are arrested or cited

Now, if we can just file a 14th amendment action to incorporate the requirement for grand juries against the state I think we'd see even fewer prosecutions for low-profile cases... since Washington doesn't routinely use a GJ
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
I will contest every ticket, fine, infraction....etc. My motivation I realized the other day is similar to how prisoners in Soviet Union used the system against itself. The overwhelming majority of prosecutors win by "pleas" . There is now way they could suddenly handle a trial court case load of an increase of almost 20 times what they do now. I realized this is one way they are getting away with tyranny and one simple effective way we can fight against it make it cost effective for them not to charge you in the first place.

(My figures are based on that only about 5% of cases reach the trial phase, without pleas or admission of guilt.)

I encourage everybody not to plea at least right away my experience is the closer it gets to trial the better the deal the prosecutor makes anyway.

People are lazy and they know it. People will not spend the money to fight. I have a lawyer that tyakes care of tickets for $500 I will gladly spend the money if I can not do it myself.

I read the other day that the Border Patrol is experiencing a huge increase in people that are not cooperating, refusing to answer questions and are asking if they are free to go, good on them. I believe this is a direct responce to ever increasing pressure by the authorities.

A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.

I salute you and Gogodawgs and all the others that stand firm.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.

When I have a question for my representatives and they don't answer ... I'm at their home knocking on their door ... they love it
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
People are lazy and they know it. People will not spend the money to fight. I have a lawyer that tyakes care of tickets for $500 I will gladly spend the money if I can not do it myself.

I read the other day that the Border Patrol is experiencing a huge increase in people that are not cooperating, refusing to answer questions and are asking if they are free to go, good on them. I believe this is a direct responce to ever increasing pressure by the authorities.

A long time ago I decided to question everything any government official did. The problem is there are not many of us that are willing to stand up to them.

I salute you and Gogodawgs and all the others that stand firm.

And I salute you sir.

I don't have much money to fight , but realized simply not pleaing out puts the pressure on them.

I was going to make jury nullification my next letter to the editor, I think I'll write about this simple method instead.
 
Last edited:

Ajetpilot

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)

I tried using my acronym finder for IRLJ, and it returned, "Nothing found." Please define.

Also, where does one look to learn the rules of the court?

I'm totally in agreement with challenging the government, always! Well done, gogodawgs.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Of course there's another option.

Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.

That is a given, I have not had a traffic ticket for 35 years and have not been arrested for 30 years give or take. Doesn't mean I have not sped, doesn't mean I will always behave in a manner that the authorities accept as reasonable, legal yes. You never know, I was arrested once when a Cop asked me where I was going and I pointed at a friend and said with him, how was I to know they were about to arrest Mike. Disturbing the peace is easy to beat when you are in a bar with a rock and roll band going full bore.
 
Last edited:

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Of course there's another option.

Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.

That is a given, I have not had a traffic ticket for 35 years and have not been arrested for 30 years give or take.

See, it's not that hard.

But then what would there be to bitch about if everyone did it? ;)



BTW, "Arrested"? Is there a story there? :)
 
Top