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Thread: after-action analysis

  1. #1
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    after-action analysis

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  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    The "victim's" story (the one who called police first:
    On Saturday, a man was driving westbound in the W27800 block of Hickory Road when a car in front of him pulled to get mail out of a mailbox, then cut him off as he approached as it turned into a driveway. The man honked his horn and then saw two juvenile males near the entrance of the driveway flip him off.

    The man then stopped, and backed up and rolled down his passenger side window to confront the kids about flipping him the middle finger. At that time, Cira walked up to the car, looked in the passenger side window, then pulled a handgun out, pushed it into the man’s right shoulder.

    The man sped off and contacted the Waukesha County Sheriff’s Department.
    Story from the guy who's being charged:
    Cira told deputies he got his mail in his car and then saw a man in a car honking and yelling at his son and his son’s friend who were walking down Hickory. He said he went to talk with the driver, whom he saw reaching around in the car, so he decided to pull his gun.

    He said he told the driver “get the (expletive) out of here,” 10 times before the driver finally sped off. He said he didn’t contact police about the incident because he was just happy the man was gone.
    http://sussex.patch.com/articles/man...honks-his-horn

    Discussion in 3... 2... 1...
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-30-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    1) Honking the horn to attempt to avoid a collision, good idea.

    2) Trying to school a couple of random passer-by kids, bad idea. Drive on.

    3) Worrying about your kids when some maniac in a car is honking & yelling at them, good idea.

    4) Being ready to defend yourself when that driver is rummaging around in the car, probably a good idea. Cops do it; why can't we?

    5) I'm not clear if the person accused says he pointed it at the guy who escalated the situation (honker / shouter guy). Probably overreaction if he did, without seeing something in the driver's hand. (But again, the cops do it; why can't we?)

    6) He should have contacted police first.

    7) Honker / shouter guy should have been charged with DC. He certainly provoked a disturbance.

    ETA:
    8) Not teaching your kids manners, bad idea.

    9) Did you catch that the driver claims the defender put the gun against his right shoulder? So he reached into the car, across the passenger seat? I doubt it.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-30-2012 at 10:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    How many times has it been said, and stressed, on these forums that, should you have to draw your weapon, be sure you are also the first one to dial 911?

    Now, because he did not call 911 at all, Mr. Cira is facing an uphill battle within the legal system. I wouldn't place any bets against him being convicted and very possibly seeing some jail time.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Besides being able to point to the various things that probably should not have been done by all three sets of players, there is little left to say - except that under current rules of engagement (that whole "imminent death" thing) we LACs are always going to be reacting and only at the last possible moment.

    Cops get special dispensation to draw way before that "imminent death" thing because they are hired to go confront people who do not want to be confronted and often act badly when confronted. We LACs are not supposed to go around confronting people regularly so we get the stricter rules of engagement. (Not saying I like the way things are. Just reminding everybody of the way things in fact are.)

    There is just way too little information to be able to even begin considering who was "in the right". About the only thing we can come away wiith for sure is that the first person to call 9-1-1 is listed as "victim" unless there are very unusual circumstances.

    I'm still mulling over how to proceed if I do get that "imminent death" feeling before the other person actually has his weapon in hand or is in striking distance. I'm thinking that if I draw and stop the threat without shooting I would be inclined to then use the power of citizen's arrest and summon the cops to take over from that point - thus still being the first one to call 9-1-1. I just need to remember to give them all the other details before advising them the other person is being held at gunpoint.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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