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Thread: Protect Yourself Against False Accusations

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Protect Yourself Against False Accusations

    Stop what you are doing and go download this. Then read it. Do it now, not later.

    Seriously, it is that important.

    If you are involved in any kind of activism, from just venting over coffee with like-minded folks to lobbying and writing letters/sending emails, you need to at least consider that you may become a target.

    I am very upset at the choice of "snitching" for the main part of the title, but nobody consulted me before the decision was made, did they?

    Go. Download it. Read it. Forward this to each and every one of your friends and maybe seven or twelve folks you don't even know except you got their email address from one of those other forward-to-everybody emails. Just be nice and use BCC instead of spreading their email address even further over the internet.

    stay safe.

    Thanks to some last-minute assistance — with “last-minute” actually being several weeks ago — and thanks to the work of many volunteers, Rats!, the anti-snitch book, is now live.
    Find it at http://rats-nosnitch.com/. Four different formats for reading. One bundle of HTML files for mirroring on your own site. All free.
    Copy and distribute at will. Spread it around far and wide. Post to your blogs about it. Tweet it. Announce it on your Facebook page, mirror the entire site … whatever. The more this gets into the hands of potential victims of snitchery, the better.
    —–
    I apologize. I spent the last several weeks dithering over one question concerning the website and the big question about getting it on Amazon and what to do with proceeds from any Amazon sales.
    I finally decided Amazon can wait a while and the website question was too petty to dither over. So I made a couple small changes … and here we go. May it reach a million people who need it.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  2. #2
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Got it. Read it. Everyone who carries a gun, openly or concealed, should read this very thoroughly. It is not enough anymore to know the laws and to know your rights. You should also be very aware of the tactics used by law enforcement agencies and what you can do to protect yourself. This is most especially true of our younger members as they are much more likely to be a target than us old geezers.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  3. #3
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    After World War II, many women who had slept with or otherwise collaborated with Nazis were humiliated by having their hair hacked off while mobs screamed, "Nazi *****!" This might not sound like much compared with beastly punishments like necklacing. But public humiliation, shunning, and the attack on their femininity was hugely degrading and psychologically damaging.



    Many women were killed after the war for collaboration ...

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Damn it Skid some already say I am paranoid, and now after reading this I understand some of the more paranoid people I know.

    It even affected my dreams last night.

    Good read, good advice, and it even has a mention of Open carriers.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    McX
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    yep, good reading, solid advice. had an brush encounter of the rat kind some time back. neighborhood crusaders held a neighborhood watch meeting. we didnt attend, as our neighborhood watch is the dog and the gun on my hip. so one of the solid citizens starts mouthing off in front of the group about our family, and what we are supposedly up to, cause they have guns! thankfully another citizen in attendance told them to knock it off, and admonished them in front of the whole group. 'splains the dirty looks i get from the rats when they walk past my house. rats abound, even in affluent suburbia.

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    meh.

    Not impressed.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    meh.

    Not impressed.

    Yet. Wait a few years.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    site positively won't open on my computer or via my smart fone...here in the rural religious countryside...
    should i be worried?

    wabbit

    ps: could someone pm me w/pdf version if possible?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-05-2012 at 11:01 AM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  9. #9
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    Can't get the link to work.

  10. #10
    Regular Member aa1911's Avatar
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    linkie no workie...

  11. #11
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    Summary: Snitches are among us; be careful what you say and to whom. Even those you think you can trust are capable of being coerced with the right leverage, so watch your six.

  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The website has been deleted, however (another lesson along these lines) I simply used google's webcache to access a screenshot of the page from before it was removed... nothing on the internet is ever truly "gone"

    Who in our local group is the snitch I wonder? Can't be me, I'm too obvious a choice...

    Actually it was entertaining read. I doubt OC meet-ups are attracting snitches on droves... but you never know, follow the forum rules on the meet-ups and we'll all be ok.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The website has been deleted, however (another lesson along these lines) I simply used google's webcache to access a screenshot of the page from before it was removed... nothing on the internet is ever truly "gone"

    Who in our local group is the snitch I wonder? Can't be me, I'm too obvious a choice...

    Actually it was entertaining read. I doubt OC meet-ups are attracting snitches on droves... but you never know, follow the forum rules on the meet-ups and we'll all be ok.
    Maybe being the obvious choice is your cover!

    Forum rules on meet ups?

    PPM summed it up pretty good.

    Remember it was the FBI, who entrapped, coerced Weaver into buying something illegal and then used that as an excuse to murder his wife and son.

    Most the "terrorist" threat thwarted since 911 were young men set up by the government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The PDF lives - http://rats-nosnitch.com/rats.pdf

    And the link still works for me - probably because I am special and smiled upon by the gods of the interwebz.

    Also at rats.mobi for your Kindle reader, rats.epub for your Nook, and http://rats-nosnitch.com/rats/ on the webz .

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Maybe being the obvious choice is your cover!

    Forum rules on meet ups?

    PPM summed it up pretty good.

    Remember it was the FBI, who entrapped, coerced Weaver into buying something illegal and then used that as an excuse to murder his wife and son.

    Most the "terrorist" threat thwarted since 911 were young men set up by the government.
    I thought the FBI manipulated Weaver into selling an agent a gun with an illegal barrel length, and retaliated against him when he wouldn't act as an informant for them?

  16. #16
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I thought the FBI manipulated Weaver into selling an agent a gun with an illegal barrel length, and retaliated against him when he wouldn't act as an informant for them?
    Actually you both are wrong... but not to worry, because I didn't know until I looked it up just now.... so it's not like I actually knew it

    A snitch brought weaver a shotgun of normal length, and asked weaver to saw it off for him, and weaver sawed it down, the ATF's position being weaver sawed it too short, and weaver said it was the legal limit... yada yada yada

    but Weaver did refuse to snitch for the ATF though...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Maybe being the obvious choice is your cover!

    Forum rules on meet ups?

    PPM summed it up pretty good.

    Remember it was the FBI, who entrapped, coerced Weaver into buying something illegal and then used that as an excuse to murder his wife and son.

    Most the "terrorist" threat thwarted since 911 were young men set up by the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I thought the FBI manipulated Weaver into selling an agent a gun with an illegal barrel length, and retaliated against him when he wouldn't act as an informant for them?
    Yes you are right, he bought the guns sawed them down. Under constant pressure and the fact that he desperately needed the money. I am not sure

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Actually you both are wrong... but not to worry, because I didn't know until I looked it up just now.... so it's not like I actually knew it

    A snitch brought weaver a shotgun of normal length, and asked weaver to saw it off for him, and weaver sawed it down, the ATF's position being weaver sawed it too short, and weaver said it was the legal limit... yada yada yada

    but Weaver did refuse to snitch for the ATF though...
    Go beyond Wikipedia.

    Weaver in his own testimony to the senate...http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...testimony.html

    I am not without fault in this matter. I was convicted of failure to appear for trial on charges I had sold a sawed-off shotgun to an ATF informant named Gus Magisano. He testified at trial under a different name—Kenneth Fadeley. That was probably not his real name either. I was found not guilty of the original weapons charge, and I was found not guilty of every other crime I was charged with, including murder and assault on Federal officers. I was charged with conspiring against the Government, and I was found not guilty of that charge. I was in jail for about a year before and during the trial. I have served time after the trial and am now on unsupervised probation. I faced my accusers at a trial. I faced the FBI, the Marshals Service, the U.S. attorney, a Federal judge and a jury of my peers. I faced the death penalty. I have been accountable for my actions. I now face you Senators to ask that those responsible for the killings of my wife and my son be brought to account for their actions.
    I disagree with Weaver's beliefs and actions but his case goes to show that Skidmarks post and his reading is good advice.

    Mr. WEAVER. OK. The very first meeting that I went to at Aryan Nations was in 1986, if I remember right, and I was introduced to this Gus Magisano by another man, and he became—well, we became acquainted, and he for the next 3 years, you might say, befriended me. Is that the right way to say it? He acted as though he was my friend and made contact with me several times and tried to talk me into doing illegal acts.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    < snip> Nothing I did caused Federal agents to violate the Constitution of the United States. I did not cause Federal agents to violate the oath of their office. My actions did not cause Federal agents to violate direct orders from Washington. My choices did not cause Federal agents to violate State and Federal law. My behavior did not cause Federal agents to violate their own agency policies. Federal agents have admitted to illegal acts. Judge Freeh, the head of the FBI, has made statements to the press that the so-called rules of engagement were unconstitutional. Federal agents have tried to cover up their illegal actions. That was their choice, not mine. I have been accountable for my choices. They should be held accountable for their wrongs. But no Federal agent has been brought to justice for the killings of Sam and Vicki Weaver.
    Snitch or sting? The feds instigated and perpetuated. The feds are responsible.....if you choose to believe Mr. Weaver's testimony to the U.S. Senate.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Snitch or sting? The feds instigated and perpetuated. The feds are responsible.....if you choose to believe Mr. Weaver's testimony to the U.S. Senate.
    The booklet provided by the OP includes those guys into the category of snitches. Even J. Edgar Hoover disproved of government entrapment techniques.

    Mr. Weaver was acquitted on all charges except missing his court date.

    An Idaho prosecutor tried to prosecute member of the FBI for murder, Clinton and his administration would have none of that.

    And personally I'd believe the testimony of a homeless, felon, crackhead over the words of any government agency.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 12-10-2012 at 09:44 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    rats abound, ESPECIALLY in affluent suburbia.
    There, fixed that for ya....
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  21. #21
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Snitch or sting? The feds instigated and perpetuated. The feds are responsible.....if you choose to believe Mr. Weaver's testimony to the U.S. Senate.
    Look up Gerry Spence. He seemed to believe Randy Weaver and defended him in spite of the fact that his Jewish friends made it clear that they though Randy was a villain. I am inclined to believe Randy over the government agents any day.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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