• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

This Happened Today, Opinions Please

TheGunMan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
83
Location
Wenatchee, WA
I went into the Wenatchee PD to renew my CWL and Gun Dealers Lic. Filled the papers out and a woman called me into a little room to do the fingerprints. I took off my coat and she said for me to take my gun (Glock21)to my truck. I complyed. After she was done I asked to speak to a Supervisor and so a Capt came in and asked how he could help me. I told him what happened and he said he would get back to me. He called and left a message that said 9.41.300 says I cannot bring a gun into a seured area. The door was left open to the public enterance and so to me it was not a secured area. There were no signs. I suggested mabee they sould get a lockbox and he said that was for courtrooms. Was I wrong here or was he. I know cops never like to be wrong and think they are always right so I am asking for opinions. I know it made me mad. I have on many ocations been in that room for prints in the past and never was anything ever said when I was carrying open. I was fingerprinted for legal reasons and not becouse I was bad. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

END_THE_FED

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
I went into the Wenatchee PD to renew my CWL and Gun Dealers Lic. Filled the papers out and a woman called me into a little room to do the fingerprints. I took off my coat and she said for me to take my gun (Glock21)to my truck. I complyed. After she was done I asked to speak to a Supervisor and so a Capt came in and asked how he could help me. I told him what happened and he said he would get back to me. He called and left a message that said 9.41.300 says I cannot bring a gun into a seured area. The door was left open to the public enterance and so to me it was not a secured area. There were no signs. I suggested mabee they sould get a lockbox and he said that was for courtrooms. Was I wrong here or was he. I know cops never like to be wrong and think they are always right so I am asking for opinions. I know it made me mad. I have on many ocations been in that room for prints in the past and never was anything ever said when I was carrying open. I was fingerprinted for legal reasons and not becouse I was bad. Thanks for your thoughts.

I would think that if it is an area open to the general public then carry is allowed. If it was an office area that one must be allowed into and you were only allowed there because you were in the process of renewing your dealer permit then carry is prohibited.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon: (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
 
Last edited:

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
I have a sneakin' suspicion that his definition of a 'secured area' differs from the accepted legal one.
Was there a "Official Use Only", "Do Not Enter", "Restricted", 'No Public Access", "Employees Only", or other signage?
A locked door? closed door? hanging beaded curtains?
 

TheGunMan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
83
Location
Wenatchee, WA
Nope, None

I have a sneakin' suspicion that his definition of a 'secured area' differs from the accepted legal one.
Was there a "Official Use Only", "Do Not Enter", "Restricted", 'No Public Access", "Employees Only", or other signage?
A locked door? closed door? hanging beaded curtains?

No, There was no indication it was a secure or restricted room.

It just makes me angry that cops are so arogant as to think they are alway right. They would rather be thatway than say the office girl was mistaken. She is not even a cop.
I have spent years working with and uptalking this cop shop. I was wrong to think they were different.
Yes, you may now say jokes about my ignorance.
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
No, There was no indication it was a secure or restricted room.

It just makes me angry that cops are so arogant as to think they are alway right. They would rather be thatway than say the office girl was mistaken. She is not even a cop.
I have spent years working with and uptalking this cop shop. I was wrong to think they were different.
Yes, you may now say jokes about my ignorance.

There may be a few more variables to what happened.

Maybe the guy who gave you the response is ignorant.

Maybe it is a secure area and they didn't post it.


I have been allowed in several secure areas in the county and city Buildings here while OC. Some officials are more informed or show better discretion.
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Since the definition of secured area is not written into 9.41.300 it will vary from locality to locality. If you went through a door that required being buzzed past, or a swipe or a code, in my opinion you are in a secure area if they choose to tell you to take it outside. I open carried to get my fingerprints done for a background check and no one said anything about the firearm except to ask the model and caliber, which was beyond a "security door", if I had been asked to put it in my car I would have complied.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
If this room is used for fingerprinting and not open to the public then it is in some sense a secured area, can anyone just go in and out as they please? I would think they would tell someone uninvited to leave.

Was this at the jail? if so then there is another RCW that comes into play RCW 9.94.043 requiring them to secure your firearm, if not then likely they were correct.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
I went into the Wenatchee PD to renew my CWL and Gun Dealers Lic. Filled the papers out and a woman called me into a little room to do the fingerprints. I took off my coat and she said for me to take my gun (Glock21)to my truck. I complyed. After she was done I asked to speak to a Supervisor and so a Capt came in and asked how he could help me. I told him what happened and he said he would get back to me. He called and left a message that said 9.41.300 says I cannot bring a gun into a seured area. The door was left open to the public enterance and so to me it was not a secured area. There were no signs. I suggested mabee they sould get a lockbox and he said that was for courtrooms. Was I wrong here or was he. I know cops never like to be wrong and think they are always right so I am asking for opinions. I know it made me mad. I have on many ocations been in that room for prints in the past and never was anything ever said when I was carrying open. I was fingerprinted for legal reasons and not becouse I was bad. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't have a problem with where the fingerprint machine is may be part of the "secure" area of the Sheriff's office. If it is behind a locked door, I would not consider it as being a public area.

However, I do have a question.

RCW 9.41.070(4) states (my bold) The application for an original license shall include two complete sets of fingerprints to be forwarded to the Washington state patrol.

If you getting a renewal, why were you being fingerprinted? I guess they get as many copies as they want with that new machine they have anyway.
 
Last edited:

ak56

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
746
Location
Carnation, Washington, USA
Ah yes, missed that part..sorry. Then why the CPL? Dealers are exempt per 9.41.060(4)


(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
Doesn't look like a complete exemption to me. If his carry is related to the business, yes. If he's carrying while running to the grocery store, probably not.
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
Personally, I would look at it like a restricted area when you were escorted back into the office area.

Like at a doctors, even with an open window to the receptionist and an unlocked door I can walk right through, I still don't enter on my own to the nurses work station / medical records area. The waiting area is"public" and I'm escorted back to the examination room, but while I have the ability to wander throughout the other office areas, I don't.

Even though you are not going into a "security" area, ie locked doors, bars, or detectors, the office area is restricted and not a general public area without permission & escort.

Sorry, but I believe that they were in the right on this one.
 

sirpuma

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
905
Location
Deer Park, Washington, USA
Ah yes, missed that part..sorry. Then why the CPL? Dealers are exempt per 9.41.060(4)

The exception states " Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;"

That means carrying for work and doesn't cover you when you're not working. For example, when you are going out to dinner with your wife or going grocery shopping. A CPL will still be needed to carry concealed or loaded in a vehicle when conducting activities not directly related to work.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
As a practical matter, a fingerprinting area in a Jail is where both the Public and Prisoners could come in contact with each other. My local Jail has a fingerprinting area that's secured by a locked door. The only "Public area of ingress/egress is clearly the area just inside the front door.

Sounds to me like someone there was lazy and left a door open and didn't post any sign saying "entering secure area" (which I don't think is required by law).
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Just a working hypothesis, but my view is that there are probably three tiers of access, and I'll try to list examples below.

"Public Access" ... No restriction other than one must have a viable reason to be there.
Restaurants, Malls, the ticketing area at your local airport.

"Restricted Access" ... For Official Use Only
Past the reception door at the doctors, past the door at your bankers, past the foyer at most office buildings, IOW the area where an entity's office work takes place. Behind the register or inside the meat department, floral department, etc., at your local store

"Secure Access" ... Only identified personnel may enter
Keycards, locks, identification required, No Lone Zones, Two-Man Rules, Contraband/prohibited item detection measures,
Past the TSA area at any airport, prisons/jails/holding areas, evidence lockers/rooms etc.

fig5_2.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheGunMan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
83
Location
Wenatchee, WA
YOU gave them your gun ... they did not force it from you. If I asked you to give me your gun would you complain after you did so?

Nobody to blame but yourself.

NO...... I did not give them my gun.

I took my gun to my truck. I needed to get my Dealers Lic paperwork done. That was not the time to get pissy with them.
After I got the paperwork done I said my complaint to them.

I was trying to not be like one of these jerks that gets into a ******* contest with them. I do not believe that helps our cause.
Yes, I complied and took my gun to my truck but I also stated my case appropriately. I think the outcome was good.
 
Last edited:
Top