Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Transporting a handun

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5

    Transporting a handun

    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but i have searched for hours trying to find a answer and no luck. I was hoping maybe you fine folks could help answer my question. I'm 19 years old and my mom got me a Glock 17 for Christmas. I am excited and eager to try it out this week with my buddies at their shooting range. One thing that i am unable to find out is the proper way to transport this gun where i am under 21. I originally thought that i could put it in the Glock case it came with unloaded and just lay it in my seat(i drive a single cab truck). After reading Kentucky statues, i am unable to verify if being in the Glock box would be considered concealed. I know this may seem like a noobie question and this may not be the proper place, but where you guys and gals open carry i figured you might have the answer. I just want to be 100% sure and not break any laws. Ive heard lots of horror stories of people getting harassed by LEOs just because a gun was in the car at the time of a traffic stop. I am a Kentucky Colonel and have a squeaky clean record that i don't want ruined by a simple mistake on my way to shoot with friends. I thank you for your time and appreciate any info you can share.

  2. #2
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by banjoman View Post
    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but i have searched for hours trying to find a answer and no luck. I was hoping maybe you fine folks could help answer my question. I'm 19 years old and my mom got me a Glock 17 for Christmas. I am excited and eager to try it out this week with my buddies at their shooting range. One thing that i am unable to find out is the proper way to transport this gun where i am under 21. I originally thought that i could put it in the Glock case it came with unloaded and just lay it in my seat(i drive a single cab truck). After reading Kentucky statues, i am unable to verify if being in the Glock box would be considered concealed. I know this may seem like a noobie question and this may not be the proper place, but where you guys and gals open carry i figured you might have the answer. I just want to be 100% sure and not break any laws. Ive heard lots of horror stories of people getting harassed by LEOs just because a gun was in the car at the time of a traffic stop. I am a Kentucky Colonel and have a squeaky clean record that i don't want ruined by a simple mistake on my way to shoot with friends. I thank you for your time and appreciate any info you can share.
    You can carry it on your person as long as it is visible (it CAN be loaded). You can carry it in plain sight in your vehicle or you can carry it in ANY factory installed enclosed storage compartment (glove box, console, etc. -- KRS 527.020). The firearm does NOT have to be unloaded; you can carry it completely loaded and a round in the chamber in Kentucky. I would suggest reading the "Kentucky law" thread at the top of the Kentucky sub-forum.

    I would suggest keeping it in the console or glove box and to not inform any officers that you are in possession of a firearm. You do NOT have to inform law enforcement officers in Kentucky that you are armed, and I reccommend never doing so. Just keep the firearm in the container that does NOT have your registration and insurance and you will be fine. If an officer asks if you have "anything" in the vehicle, such as firearms and such just say NO. It is your right, and I never advise anyone to surrender their rights.

    As for the horror stories, an LEO cannot disarm you unless specific circumstances are met in Kentucky. I would read KRS 237.104 for more information.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-03-2012 at 11:18 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5
    So i cant carry it in the Glock case it come with?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    How does UPS/FedEx get away with transporting a pistol instead of it being concealed?
    Unloaded, and in a container (preferably locked, and you don't really need to put the key in your pocket do
    you?)

    How does one transport a recently purchased handgun from the store to their house?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 12-04-2012 at 12:41 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5
    You gotta a real good point, how would a go about locking my case. It doesnt have a hole to put a lock through. Could i just put a padlock around the handle?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915

    Since every mfg includes one with every handgun (easiest way since some states require one and others do not, you put one with All of 'em).
    Most gunshops also have a few laying around, just for special occasions.
    You could also try to find a lock with a longer shackle... if one will fit.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central KY
    Posts
    917
    As long as it has an empty magazine (if in the handgun) and an empty chamber, I think you can carry it however you would like. As far as I know, there are no laws in KY pertaining to unloaded handguns. Except maybe regarding minors?

  8. #8
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    As long as it has an empty magazine (if in the handgun) and an empty chamber, I think you can carry it however you would like. As far as I know, there are no laws in KY pertaining to unloaded handguns. Except maybe regarding minors?
    Kentucky does NOT differentiate between the two (loader of unloaded).

    Here are the definitions for KRS Chapter 527:

    527.010 Definitions for chapter.
    The following definitions apply in this chapter unless the context otherwise requires:
    (1) "Booby trap device" shall have the same meaning as set forth in KRS 237.030.
    (2) "Deface" means to remove, deface, cover, alter, or destroy the manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark.
    (3) "Destructive device" shall have the same meaning as set forth in KRS 237.030.
    (4) "Firearm" means any weapon which will expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.
    (5) "Handgun" means any pistol or revolver originally designed to be fired by the use of a single hand

    And the relevant statute; KRS 527.020:

    527.020 Carrying concealed deadly weapon.
    (1) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed weapon when he or she carries concealed a firearm or other deadly weapon on or about his or her person.

    It does not matter if it is loaded or not; if a firearm is concealed "on or about your person" then you can be charged for CCDW. Look back at the definitions for the chapter, and read the definition of "firearm." It does not state a weapon that will expel a projectile by the action of an explosive "if it is loaded."

    But to answer his question, yes you can carry it in the factory box as long as it is not within immediate reach. If it is not "on or about your person" then you will be fine. A firearm in a factory box that is setting in the backseat would be fine in my opinion.

    Still, why would you not carry it where it could be used for SD if needed? You can carry it loaded and in the console, glove box, or on your hip as long as it is visible if you wanted. You just can't carry it loaded and concealed.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-04-2012 at 11:03 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  9. #9
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Put it in the factory box and transport it however you like (loaded or unloaded) in plain sight. It would be a rough stretch to convince a jury that you were indeed carrying a concealed deadly weapon if it is setting in your seat in a plainly marked box.

    The simple way to judge if something is legal is to think "Can I convince a responding officer, the prosecuting attorney, a judge or a jury of my peers that I did infact do nothing wrong?" If you feel confident (willing to bet your freedom on it) then you should be fine.

    If you carry in a Glock box in plain sight and get arrested (for CCDW), I will personally bail you out of jail and do my best to get an attorney and pay for it to get you cleared of all charges.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central KY
    Posts
    917
    Thank you, Glockster!

  11. #11
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Keep your checkbook handy, jissac. Carrying a handgun in the manufacturer's supplied case, or any case, is CCDW.
    Do you have anything to support this claim?

    I was under the impression that, unless otherwise stated, the statutes use the most widely recognized definition for a word.

    It is hardly "concealed" if it is a MARKED CASE, or that is just my understanding of the word.

    con·ceal
    /kənˈsēl/Verb
    1.Keep from sight; hide.
    2.Keep (something) secret; prevent from being known or noticed.

    Synonyms
    hide - dissemble - secrete - screen - mask - cover

    I just don't see even the most persausive CA convincing anyone that transporting a handgun in the manufacture's marked case is concealing anything.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  12. #12
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    A gun is a deadly weapon whether loaded or unloaded. The only place where Ky. law makes a distinction is in bars where only "loaded" guns are prohibited. Of course, this doesn't give anyone permission to conceal their unloaded gun in a bar unless they have a license.
    Even with a CDWL it is still ILLEGAL to carry a concealed firearm in a BAR. The only way one can carry in a bar is if it is carried unloaded and in the open.

    From KRS 237.110:

    (16) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, no license issued pursuant to this section SHALL AUTHORIZE any person to carry a CONCEALED firearm into:

    (e) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

    I am quite sure you are aware of this, but you must've had a brain fart.

    To those that aren't familiar with the statute that he referenced, here it is:

    244.125 Prohibition against possession of loaded firearm in room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, no person shall be in possession of a loaded, as defined in KRS 237.060, firearm while actually within the room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink of a building on premises licensed to sell distilled spirits and wine at retail by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises pursuant to KRS Chapter 243.

    (2) This section shall not apply to the owner manager, or employee of licensed premises, law enforcement officers, or special local peace officers commissioned pursuant to KRS 61.360.

    (3) This section shall not apply to a bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty (50) persons and which receives less than fifty percent (50%) of its annual food and beverage income from the dining facilities by the sale of alcohol.

    (4) Nothing in this section shall be construed as permitting the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon in violation of KRS 527.020.

    (5) Any firearm possessed in violation of this section shall be subject to forfeiture and shall be disposed of pursuant to KRS 237.090.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  13. #13
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Thank you, Glockster!
    You're welcome!
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  14. #14
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Do you have anything to support this claim?

    I was under the impression that, unless otherwise stated, the statutes use the most widely recognized definition for a word.

    It is hardly "concealed" if it is a MARKED CASE, or that is just my understanding of the word.

    con·ceal
    /kənˈsēl/Verb
    1.Keep from sight; hide.
    2.Keep (something) secret; prevent from being known or noticed.

    Synonyms
    hide - dissemble - secrete - screen - mask - cover

    I just don't see even the most persausive CA convincing anyone that transporting a handgun in the manufacture's marked case is concealing anything.
    KRS 527.020:
    (1) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed weapon when he or she carries CONCEALED a firearm or other deadly weapon on or ABOUT his or her person.

    KRS 527.010:
    (4) "Firearm" means any weapon which will expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.

    KRS 527.020:
    (8) A loaded or unloaded firearm or other deadly weapon SHALL NOT be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in any enclosed container, compartment, or storage space installed as ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT in a motor vehicle by its MANUFACTURER, including but not limited to a glove compartment, center console, or seat pocket, regardless of whether said enclosed container, storage space, or compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism.

    This statute definately cannot be argued as vague. It is very clear in its intent. There are NO exceptions for carrying a firearm in its factory supplied case "on or ABOUT his or her person." A firearm in such a case resting on the passenger seat is definately "about" the person who is driving the vehicle.

    I know it is stupid and I agree with you that it is an ignorant statute especially since we can keep a LOADED firearm or OTHER DEADLY weapon in plain sight or in ANY enclosed factory installed storage compartment while in our vehicle, but it is the law and we must follow it.

    Would he be charged for doing so? Probably not, but he could be and I wouldn't want to risk it.


    I would do the sensible and legal thing here: load the gun and put it in your console or wear it on your hip in plain sight. Why keep it unloaded and in its case when you can keep it loaded and on your person or nearby? I have no use for a firearm that is unloaded and in a gun case.

    If you just have the need to keep it in the case then put the whole case in your console or glove box. If it won't fit then put it in your trunk.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-05-2012 at 12:19 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    I know it is not vague, and I know the statute does not make an exception for the factory case, because it wouldn't need to.

    It does not make an exception for a holster, or laying on the seat. Why? Because the word CONCEALED. You can actually conceal a weapon in any factory installed compartment because every vehicle has some and few actually hold a firearm.

    You don't see a Glock box a think "I bet he has some pencils in there." Why? Because the most common use of a box labeled "Glock" is to carry a firearm. It would be rare that you would find a box designed ONLY to hold a firearm and its accompanied accessories containing anything else.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  16. #16
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I know it is not vague, and I know the statute does not make an exception for the factory case, because it wouldn't need to.

    It does not make an exception for a holster, or laying on the seat. Why? Because the word CONCEALED. You can actually conceal a weapon in any factory installed compartment because every vehicle has some and few actually hold a firearm.

    You don't see a Glock box a think "I bet he has some pencils in there." Why? Because the most common use of a box labeled "Glock" is to carry a firearm. It would be rare that you would find a box designed ONLY to hold a firearm and its accompanied accessories containing anything else.
    I will refer you to "Holland v. Commonwealth."

    "If the gun is wore OUTSIDE the shirt or jacket in FULL view , then no one may question the wearer's right so to do."

    The law does not make an exception for a firearm in a holster because it is visible while being carried in one. It is common sense that if an item is identifiable then it is not obscured from FULL view and that it can be recognized for what it is. The same for setting in PLAIN VIEW in a car seat or on the dash of an automobile. When we choose to carry a firearm in a factory installed storage compartment the firearm is still concealed from view. The fact that it is concealed is not relevant however, because the General Assembly has allowed us to carry deadly weapons in these places without first obtaining the CDWL. These places are SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTED under authority of state law as places that would normally be considered concealed on or about the person but are no longer due to the exemption.

    Anything can be concealed in a case, regardless of who manufactured the case or the logos that appear on it. Just because you are carrying a gun case does not mean you have a gun. If the legislature wanted to allow the carrying of a concealed weapon in a gun case "about" the person they would have amended the law to say so. The statute does not grant us the legal right to do so without first obtaining a CDWL, therefore it is illegal to do so for those that do NOT have a CDWL.

    We cannot allow ourselves to read beyond the original intent of the statute in question. Sure, most people would see a gun case and think that there is a gun in it; however, if it is in a case it is CONCEALED from view. If the case is "about" our person then we are carrying a concealed deadly weapon and can be charged accordingly. State law does NOT grant exemptions for firearms cases like it does for factory installed storage compartments in our vehicles.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-05-2012 at 02:38 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5
    I wish i drove a car, i would put it in the trunk. Problem is, i drive a single cab Colorado.........Is the manufactures case really considered concealed, even with a lock on it? Am i allowed to transport my AR-15 or other guns in hardshell cases? If i put a bed cover over my pickup and put them back there, would that be concealed? Im a little confused here. If its LEGAL for me to pack it in my glove box at my age, thats what ill do. If a cop was to ask me if i had any guns in the car, would i have to tell him it was in there and what would he say?............BTW, I thank you and appreciate your time very much so far for helping me.
    Last edited by banjoman; 12-05-2012 at 03:41 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5
    Could i just leave my case open with a gun lock through my Glock in the passenger seat?

  19. #19
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lexington, Ky
    Posts
    1,107
    Quote Originally Posted by banjoman View Post
    Could i just leave my case open with a gun lock through my Glock in the passenger seat?
    Y'all are being pigheaded over the mode of transportation. Take the pistol out of the box. Lay it on the passenger side of your truck's seat. Leave it there. By itself. With nothing on top of it. Loaded, or unloaded doesn't matter. Just leave it there in OPEN view on your seat.

    Or. Put it up on your dashboard. Leave it alone. Loaded or unloaded. Nothing covering it up.

    Or. Put it in your glove box, center console, or door panel pouch-thingy, OR any -Factory. Installed. enclosed. Compartment.

    No more butting of heads, or shoving facts, and legal code into people's eyes and ears. And stop being so stubborn. Either do it simple-like, or leave your gun at home. Assuming your like the majority of people in this state without a CCDW, you can revel in the simplicity of our laws that makes it so, SO easy to transport a firearm in your vehicle.

    You Do Not need any gun-lock or silly mechanism of the such. They only take time away from your life when you're in a situation when you need the gun, and you have to fumble with the right key, and the lock, and turning it, and taking it off, and loading it, and locking a round in the chamber, and before you get to the second part, you could be dead.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 12-05-2012 at 09:03 AM.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  20. #20
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Ok banjoman, I'll tell you the widely reguarded "facts" (everything is up to interpretation) without any disputed opinions.

    You can transport the gun loaded or unloaded (I would suggest loaded) in plain sight or in a factory installed compartment. Neither is considered concealed.

    I would not EVER use a lock on my gun unless I think there is a chance of a unauthorized (child, ect) person gaining control of the firearm. Like drake said, they slow people down. They're too cheap to actually stop anything though.

    I would not suggest leaving the firearm unsecured in any type of moving vehicle. You do not want anything, including a gun, flying around inside the passenger compartment in a roll over. I know people who said that the worst beating they ever had was from a light plastic coffee mug during a roll over. I would suggest wearing it in a holster or placing it in the glove box. Keep your lisense, registration and insurance card seperate. You do not want to be seen as reaching for a gun.

    If a cop asks you if you have any weapons in the vehicle you are not required by law to answer it. It is, though, best not to lie to them. I would suggest always avoiding the question. Maybe answer his with another question. "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle with you?" "Sir, can you please infrom me why you pulled me over today?"

    If I ever have to inform officers of my weapon (such as in other states) then I just hand them my CDWL with my DL. This is an easy way to get the point across. Since that does not apply to you then I would say something such as "Sir, I have a weapon/firearm in my glove box with my papers." It'll probably be best to never say "I have a gun".
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  21. #21
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by banjoman View Post
    Could i just leave my case open with a gun lock through my Glock in the passenger seat?
    Yes! And I have already answered all of the other questions in my posts above. ANY FACTORY INSTALLED ENCLOSED STORAGE COMPARTMENT IS FINE! YOU CAN KEEP IT LOADED OR UNLOADED, THAT IS UP TO YOU.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boone County, KY
    Posts
    312
    I have a pickup truck and no carry permit . I always keep my pistols in a locked metal box going to the range. Or if heading out of state to shoot on my inlaws property in Ohio. Never had a problem.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    186
    As has been previously posted, simply put it in the front passenger seat, in the open and drive on. I also like the "fuzzy dice" carry. Just hang it from the rear view mirror

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •