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Thread: Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

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    Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    Here's a question for anyone who may be informed.

    My friend was recently telling me a story of how the employee of Chuck E Cheese wouldn't allow him to leave with his son, because the stamp on his hand didn't match up on the stamp on his son's hand - because his son came in with his brother, and his brother already left.

    He said he went to leave anyway, but they told him they would call the police on him if he left.

    My question is, would the police have reasonable suspicion to actually detain my friend at this point?

    I know Chuck E Cheese claims this policy is there to protect the children, but some things seem to really cross over the boundaries. Unless that is just me.

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    False imprisonment is a crime and a tort.

    Saying you'll call the police isn't.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    IANAL,NDIPOOTV, but I'd say yes.
    And with a potential child abduction you gotta know the police would be after him big time.

    So did he call his brother back, or how did they get to leave?
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    Because its too difficult to ask the kid, "Is this your daddy?"

    Or, ask the dad if he's got any pictures of the kid in his wallet.

    I can't believe this hasn't come up before. How many times have parents brought more than their own kids to Chucky Cheese and had the other kid's parents arrive late from work or something?
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    They may not even need RAS, if "Dad" wants to leave with his kid and the police are trying to establish the Identity of the child, chances are "dad" will stay and cooperate with them voluntarily, if the contact is voluntary then no RAS is needed.

    However if dad suddenly decides to leave on his own without the child, could that, in addition to failing the Chuck E cheese match system and having a named complaint from the manager of that Chuck E Cheese be considered RAS? most likely.

    My guess is that there is some waiver signed by whoever dropped off the kid explaining the system for preventing child abduction, therefore the guardian of the child or whoever brought them agreed that the child would only be allowed to leave with that adult or listing other circumstances, therefore the "detention" of the child by the manager of the CE. C is probably "voluntary" too.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    They may not even need RAS, if "Dad" wants to leave with his kid and the police are trying to establish the Identity of the child, chances are "dad" will stay and cooperate with them voluntarily, if the contact is voluntary then no RAS is needed.

    However if dad suddenly decides to leave on his own without the child, could that, in addition to failing the Chuck E cheese match system and having a named complaint from the manager of that Chuck E Cheese be considered RAS? most likely.

    My guess is that there is some waiver signed by whoever dropped off the kid explaining the system for preventing child abduction, therefore the guardian of the child or whoever brought them agreed that the child would only be allowed to leave with that adult or listing other circumstances, therefore the "detention" of the child by the manager of the CE. C is probably "voluntary" too.
    I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe to detain anybody RAS would have to be there FIRST, not if. If the person wanted to leave then I see no way a citizen could legally stop them, unless there was a lost child to begin with. And if the child and parent was detained, and there were no custody orders or orders of protection involved, somebody could go to jail, IMO, but not the parent. I have had Walmart employees years ago attempt to detain us because I would not let them look in my cart after check out. Not only did they get told to buzz off, I called police. If anybody detains anybody they better be damn sure they have their ducks in a row.
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    Re: Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    +1 Walking Wolf

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with Chuck-e-Cheese, and I understand that they are trying to stop child abduction, but how can they keep you from leaving with your kid?
    Even if they have rent-a-cop security, how can they legally detain you? And if they separate your kid from you is that not kidnapping, or at least custodial interference?
    Even if you could prove that they are your kid, ie wallet photos, or child's social security card in your wallet, that doesn't mean your child is supposed to be with you.
    There are many cases where there is a divorce and restraining order, where one parent has custody and the other does not. So how does Chuck-e-Cheese work those?
    Then, once police are involved, how do you prove it to them? I checked my wallet, I have nothing that proves my kid is my kid. I would have to return home for official documents.
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    He's your child, you own him so leave. Let them call the police. If they forcibly try to detain you, you'll have a good lawsuit on your hands.
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    You can't leave ! Haha .. I have heard this many times...I just leave. They want to stop me? Better be willing to fight (and lose) and get a few broken bones.

    Its called kidnapping (preventing a person from moving from point A to point B).

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    Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    When the hell did they start stamping? I remember going there as a kid at it was free range.

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    Re: Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You can't leave ! Haha .. I have heard this many times...I just leave. They want to stop me? Better be willing to fight (and lose) and get a few broken bones.

    Its called kidnapping (preventing a person from moving from point A to point B).
    Just a curious question.

    What about Code Adams in stores? I've seen one where the doors were locked and the police wouldn't let anyone leave until the missing child was found.

    It was a Walmart that had a police substation in it.

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    Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    I know hospitals have this policy as well and each calls it their own way. When I worked in house even we were tagged with security detail and certain doors by our shop. During the training they never actually address what to do if someone was trying to leave just to not let then leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    Just a curious question.

    What about Code Adams in stores? I've seen one where the doors were locked and the police wouldn't let anyone leave until the missing child was found.

    It was a Walmart that had a police substation in it.

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    I can't see how anyone without a child could be detained in those circumstances. I have heard of Walmart locking the doors, but if I want to go, I am going even if I have throw a cart through the plate glass windows. Though I would probably stay to help look on my own, I won't be forced to do anything. If you don't have a child with you, where is the RAS in that situation?
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    Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    I'm leaving. My kid is leaving with me. Some minimum wage deputy assistant manager trainee at Chuck Effing Cheese is not going to have any material effect on that plan of action. There is a license plate on the front and rear of my truck that will allow the cops to find my residence. I'll see them when I get there.

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    Re: Friend refused exit at Chuck E Cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I can't see how anyone without a child could be detained in those circumstances. I have heard of Walmart locking the doors, but if I want to go, I am going even if I have throw a cart through the plate glass windows. Though I would probably stay to help look on my own, I won't be forced to do anything. If you don't have a child with you, where is the RAS in that situation?
    Where is the RAS in having a child? That's like having a robbery where the robber is say Chinese and you detain every Chinese person on the block.

    Or you "search" every Muslim trying to get on a plane.

    Where does the RAS end?

    *I'd stay and help too. Just curious how far it can be taken.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    Where is the RAS in having a child? That's like having a robbery where the robber is say Chinese and you detain every Chinese person on the block.

    Or you "search" every Muslim trying to get on a plane.

    Where does the RAS end?

    *I'd stay and help too. Just curious how far it can be taken.

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    Because in the case of the chinaman robbing the store or the plane, that's based on a description of a suspect who has either gotten away or MIGHT commit a crime...

    in the Code Adam scenario they have a specific report of missing abducted child who is still inside the store, and thus they have people look at all children to see...

    however I worked at a store that had "Code Adam" procedures, and we weren't told to lock the door, only to go to an assigned exit door and look for children who matched the description of the missing child, then phone police about the adult they were with, we were told to under no circumstances attempt to detain them or prevent them from leaving...
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    OK; I'm one of the most hard nosed RAS guys here, but I give all those "they can't stop me from leaving with my kid, LEO have no RAS to stop me....." types 5 to 1 odds on 2 bets

    1} There isn't a court in the country that would not find that a guy leaving a "kiddie joint" with a kid that doesn't match the security stamp system wasn't RAS.

    2} If said "kiddie joint" allowed some stranger to leave with their kid they would be the first and loudest yelling "LAW SUIT!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    Just a curious question.

    What about Code Adams in stores? I've seen one where the doors were locked and the police wouldn't let anyone leave until the missing child was found.

    It was a Walmart that had a police substation in it.

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    If they lock their doors, I would leave via an emergency exit .. they cannot lock these. If all doors were locked then leaving by force would be appropriate. The most they would have is a civil case - and a losing one at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    OK; I'm one of the most hard nosed RAS guys here, but I give all those "they can't stop me from leaving with my kid, LEO have no RAS to stop me....." types 5 to 1 odds on 2 bets

    1} There isn't a court in the country that would not find that a guy leaving a "kiddie joint" with a kid that doesn't match the security stamp system wasn't RAS.

    2} If said "kiddie joint" allowed some stranger to leave with their kid they would be the first and loudest yelling "LAW SUIT!!!!!
    Unless there is a missing child report no business, or civil employee has any power to stop a lawful citizen leaving a business with HIS OWN family. That is ignorant, it is the parents responsibility alone for their child's safety. And it is about damn time they started being responsible. You can keep a person out of a business, there is nothing in the constitution that would condone incarceration of innocent law abiding citizens and their family. Detain me for some stupid carp and I guarantee a law suit. How could a kiddie joint be held culpable or negligent for something that is NOT their responsibility?
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless there is a missing child report no business, or civil employee has any power to stop a lawful citizen leaving a business with HIS OWN family. That is ignorant, it is the parents responsibility alone for their child's safety. And it is about damn time they started being responsible. You can keep a person out of a business, there is nothing in the constitution that would condone incarceration of innocent law abiding citizens and their family. Detain me for some stupid carp and I guarantee a law suit. How could a kiddie joint be held culpable or negligent for something that is NOT their responsibility?
    Well if there was a signed waiver stating "children under age "X" will not be permitted to leave without the adult that brought them... then isn't that a binding contract? freedom of contract would rule then, the parent contracted Chuck E Cheese to ensure the child didn't get abducted with said security system then they have to abide by the contract.

    There is not a court or DA in the country who will rule Chuck E Cheese is wrong in that policy....
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well if there was a signed waiver stating "children under age "X" will not be permitted to leave without the adult that brought them... then isn't that a binding contract? freedom of contract would rule then, the parent contracted Chuck E Cheese to ensure the child didn't get abducted with said security system then they have to abide by the contract.

    There is not a court or DA in the country who will rule Chuck E Cheese is wrong in that policy....
    Bovine Scatology, please provide cites? I have never heard of such a thing when going to restaurants including ones such as Chuck E Cheese. Please do not throw cow pies without backing it up. The moment any place of business has you sign a waiver THEY accept responsibility, and no business lawyer in their right mind would back such a thing, IMO. A government business such as a school can do that because they ARE responsible, and do have a certain amount of indemnity from law suits.

    It is the PARENTS AND GUARDIANS RESPONSIBILITY for their children's safety, NOT a village. That is as ignorant as thinking the police are responsible for your safety.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well if there was a signed waiver stating "children under age "X" will not be permitted to leave without the adult that brought them... then isn't that a binding contract? freedom of contract would rule then, the parent contracted Chuck E Cheese to ensure the child didn't get abducted with said security system then they have to abide by the contract.

    There is not a court or DA in the country who will rule Chuck E Cheese is wrong in that policy....
    A contract, entered into with the business by one parent (legal guardian) is not binding on the other parent (in the case of the OP). It is only binding on the two parties that entered into the "contract." The business is placed in the position of conforming to the language of the contract, possibly without the benefit of the other party's input if a unplanned "contract" modification is required.

    The cops will have RAS because a business (Chuck E Cheese in this case) will very likely report a abducted child even if they know (little Amy ran to Daddy and yelled Daddy) that a parent (legal guardian) left their premises with that child. The business is enforcing their policy, not the law. The policy enforcement could place the business in civil legal peril, very easily based on the OP. And quite possibly the specific business employees could be in criminal legal peril based on the actions described in the OP.

    The cops could be in trouble if they refuse to believe little Amy and her claim of "That is my daddy." After the cops detain daddy to sort things out, daddy must "lawyer up." The cops will always err on the side of caution regardless of the civil consequences for illogical and possibly unlawful proactive policing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jphoenix View Post
    I am all for protection and exercising of our rights as parents and as Legal Citizens of the USA. That said, I have to agree with the above quoted statement. There are times when level headed thinking and diplomacy can go a long ways and prevent a scene.
    Preventing a "scene", interesting position. You seem to indicate that there is a point at which a scene may be required to defend your rights and liberty. At what point will you create a scene to defend your rights and your liberty?

    Being a parent whose daughter had gone to the named place for a friend's b-day party I did the good old field trip permission slip routine. Had my name and my wife's name as authorized to pick up my child. The guardian if you will (hosting parent who had the same stamp as all the kids) presented the slip to the store manager.

    When I went to pick my daughter up I went straight to the manager, showed my legal issued i.d., he confirmed with the hosting parent I was who I said I was. No problem, I was on my way with my daughter, no issues.
    Different situation from the OP, it seems, if a "permission slip" is required for the child to attend. Attendance is predicated on agreeing to the terms and conditions of the event and your compliance with the terms and conditions of the event is the correct course of action.

    Was it right for the staff to act as they did? Don't know, was not there. Would I have called the police if I felt I was being treated or detained, sure thing.
    You do not know if the business was "right" in their actions, yet you would likely have called the police if you were confronted with a similar situation as described in the OP.

    Bottom line, there are too many sickos out there that will try to snatch up our children. I believe the old saying "it takes a village to raise a child".
    No, it does not take a village, it takes parents of that child. The village can play a role when the "traditional family structure" is compromised and typically only if a parent requests assistance. But the village must never be proactive it must only be reactive, liberty demands it. However, if the child has no voice (advocate) other than the state (village) then the state must be proactive to the benefit of the child.

    Since this is a OC forum, I equate it to a LEO asking for my i.d. and to run my weapon. "Sure thing officer, how do you want to continue, sir?" I would much rather be carrying on business as usual than detained and sitting in a cell for failure to follow orders or obstruction of a LEO just to prove a point.

    I hope my comments have not offended anyone here and if so please accept my apology. I have been asked for my i.d. and the officer DID secure my sidearm and run the serial number. He handed it back, thanked me and even complimented me on my chosen weapon and defensive ammo of choice.
    Or, you could stand firm and defend your rights and correct the possibly unlawful behavior of your local LEA. You acted out of self interest, which is your right, but you did the other villagers in your village no favors by complying with possibly extralegal demands by LE. Other villagers in your village may wish to be free from extralegal interference from LE and you did not contribute to that goal by your compliance.

    Have a good one everyone. Let's keep the OC people looked upon as responsible and polite in the eyes of the Sheeple.
    The sheeple will not unlawfully detain you, place you in a cell for "contempt of cop", LE will. Sheeple may initiate the contact with LE but only LE can toss you in the clink. Liberty demands that every citizen lawfully exercise their rights and compel the state to comply with the law. The sheeple have no such burden placed upon them. If a sheep violates the law (false report) and the result is that LE is complicit, unknowingly so, in that violation of the law (MWAG call) then it is every citizen's responsability to hold LE accountable for their unlawf acts.

    Welcome to OCDO. I look forward to your contributions to this forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphoenix View Post
    There are times when level headed thinking and diplomacy can go a long ways and prevent a scene.

    Would I have called the police if I felt I was being treated or detained, sure thing.

    Bottom line, there are too many sickoes out there that will try to snatch up our children. I believe the old saying "it takes a village to raise a child".


    I have been asked for my i.d. and the officer DID secure my sidearm and run the serial number. He handed it back, thanked me and even complimented me on my chosen weapon and defensive ammo of choice.

    .
    Diplomacy? Scene? Baaaaa baaaa. "call the police?" I have never called the police..they are not my helper...I can take care of things myself. And your village? Living in a dream world.

    And giving a cop your sidearm? Ya know the 2nd amendment is here to enable you to protect yourself against that same very person .. yet here you go "OK, take my gun, I'm fine with that". Of course the cop complimented you ... you just tossed your 2nd amendment right into the toilet . Its does not mean much if the state can just come up and ask you for your gun, does it?

    People are getting used to being detained for no lawful purpose. Now a 17 yr old kid with pimples has the authority to detain you.

    You are free to allow people to hold you unlawfully; I myself will not. You want to help that 17yr old kid out? Then tell him NO ... best he learn this from you rather than me. I would not be to pleasant.

    No civil contract can result in a detainment or kidnapping IMO.

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    Is there a real threat to the kids here? Has any child been abducted from a Chuck E. Cheese or similar establishment? If so, I'd think that they had a responsibility to ensure that the child is only picked up by a parent or some other authorized adult. The employee could TRY to enforce the policy, but could not legally detain the parent or the child. If the parent took the child and left and if the employee suspected (or even was concerned) that the child was being taken by someone other than the parent, he should call the police, provide whatever details he could, and let them handle the situation.

    Store policies don't have the effect of law. However, they are surely necessary to protect us in this litigious age.

    The stamps sound like a good way to handle the situation. The adult who brings the child and the child get the same stamp. When the child leaves, an employee checks the stamps. If they don't match, something is amiss. It may be as simple as one adult dropped the child off and another is picking him up. That should raise a concern by the staff, however they should only attempt to keep the child there while they resolve the matter. I don't see how they could possibly enforce a detention.

    "Sir, this stamp system is in place to protect the children from being abducted by non-custodial adults. Not having such a system in place would also put us at legal risk. So let's try to figure this thing out before you leave. I cannot physically stop you from leaving, but will be forced to call the police and have them look into the matter if you do leave now. I hope you understand that we do this so that someone else cannot take your child from our store without us and the police immediately finding out that it has happened.

    OK, now, can we start by figuring out why your stamps don't match?"

    It's all in how you handle it. Are you trying to solve a problem, or are you trying to flex authority that you don't really have?

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