Question concerning Carrying at my Apartment, thoughts welcomed...

SEO · Dec 4, 2012

I am a Armed Security Enforcement Officer registered through the State of NC's PPSB (Private Protective Service Board) and I have to carry on person to and from work with it being my sole responsibilty of the weapon at all times while on duty. There is no issue with this but my question is, is that it states in my Lease that "Do not discharge, display, or in anyway use a firearm within the premises." So when Im off duty how can I get my personal weapon to and from the vehicle as I OC daily? I do not have my CCW yet but since I pay rent I technically am on my property and law states I can carry concealed on my property!?! Can I get some advice or thoughts? Thanks for ya'lls time.

NC-Heel · Dec 4, 2012

I would start by talking to the property manager. This is a civil matter (the lease) and not a legal matter. The law allows you to have firearms where you live but the lease does not allow you to openly display them.

SEO · Dec 4, 2012

So how should I get to and from my vehicle from my apartment with my firearm? I do have a badge that can be easily displayed next to my firearm on my belt.

Citizen · Dec 4, 2012

I wouldn't talk to the manager unless I knew in advance he/she would be receptive. The last thing you want is a manager who then sends the question up channels to the corporate attorneys, with the manager or anybody up channels being anti-gun or careful about liability. Suddenly your lease terms may be interpreted in way that goes against you, or that clause that allows them to set rules of conduct suddenly includes no carrying guns on the property. Too many opportunities for things to go wrong, I'm thinking.

Until you clear up whether it is legal to conceal from your apartment to your car, you could look into the legality of carrying it unloaded and locked in a tool box or something from the apartment to the car.

Another advantage would be that you wouldn't be advertising to all eyes that there is an apartment with guns--an inviting burglary target depending on the class of the place and layout/security, etc.

SEO · Dec 5, 2012

Citizen said:
I wouldn't talk to the manager unless I knew in advance he/she would be receptive. The last thing you want is a manager who then sends the question up channels to the corporate attorneys, with the manager or anybody up channels being anti-gun or careful about liability. Suddenly your lease terms may be interpreted in way that goes against you, or that clause that allows them to set rules of conduct suddenly includes no carrying guns on the property. Too many opportunities for things to go wrong, I'm thinking.

Until you clear up whether it is legal to conceal from your apartment to your car, you could look into the legality of carrying it unloaded and locked in a tool box or something from the apartment to the car.

Another advantage would be that you wouldn't be advertising to all eyes that there is an apartment with guns--an inviting burglary target depending on the class of the place and layout/security, etc.

This is a high end apartment complex and I have had several residents tell me that they are glad that they have a neighbor that is considered a 1st Responder under NC terms as a Security Officer but some neighbors still give you a dirty look while in uniform. I went to the office today in uniform before heading out to work with my gear on and had no issues. They actually thanked me for what I do and never mention a thing about having my service weapon. Should I talk to my local PD or Sheriff's office? BTW: I'm in Forsyth County/Winston Salem.

NC-Heel · Dec 5, 2012

SEO said:
So how should I get to and from my vehicle from my apartment with my firearm? I do have a badge that can be easily displayed next to my firearm on my belt.

I am going to guess that while in uniform they will have no problem with it. Otherwise conceal till you get to your car or carry it in a gun related container (that is not considered concealing but rather transporting). Common areas are not considered your property for concealed carry. This has been discussed when carrying on property owned by a HOA.

Let me ask you this, do you have a uniform you where while working? Do you leave for work while wearing it? You said you could put a badge beside your gun, are you wanting to open carry while going about your daily business and get around the stipulations in your lease?

Once again I would speak to the property manager and explain your situation. They can not stop you from having a firearm in your apartment but they can ask you not to open carry on common areas. Your options are ask permission and get a yes or no or not ask and get no where. You have no legal statutes or recourse to back you up. If you want to open carry you will need to get permission or find a different place to live.

P.S. EDIT

I was writing this while you posted your last statement so I didn't know you had already went to the office in uniform with your weapon. Sounds like they will have no problems while in uniform. Those dirty looks are just you being paranoid. I open carry all around Charlotte and people think I am police or security all the time. The unarmed security guy at Harris Teeter is always asking me if my company is hiring. Harris Teeter doesn't allow their non LEO security to carry. They are there to observe and report.

NC-Heel · Dec 5, 2012

SEO said:
Should I talk to my local PD or Sheriff's office? BTW: I'm in Forsyth County/Winston Salem.

What would speaking to them solve? This is not a legal matter, it is a civil matter. Difference is if you were to get caught open carrying in a common area and they called the police there is nothing the police could do. You are not breaking any laws, you are in breach of contract. The complex could decide to start the eviction process but they couldn't have you arrested for trespassing because you have a legal right to be there, your lease. It would then take them a couple of months to legally evict you.

SEO · Dec 5, 2012

NC-Heel said:
I am going to guess that while in uniform they will have no problem with it. Otherwise conceal till you get to your car or carry it in a gun related container (that is not considered concealing but rather transporting). Common areas are not considered your property for concealed carry. This has been discussed when carrying on property owned by a HOA.

Let me ask you this, do you have a uniform you where while working? Do you leave for work while wearing it? You said you could put a badge beside your gun, are you wanting to open carry while going about your daily business and get around the stipulations in your lease?

Once again I would speak to the property manager and explain your situation. They can not stop you from having a firearm in your apartment but they can ask you not to open carry on common areas. Your options are ask permission and get a yes or no or not ask and get no where. You have no legal statutes or recourse to back you up. If you want to open carry you will need to get permission or find a different place to live.

Yes, I leave for work in uniform with my company issued weapon and all of my gear. Management knows this and this is not a problem. My concern is transporting or getting my personal firearm to my vehicle while off duty and going about my personal business.

Grapeshot · Dec 5, 2012

NC-Heel said:
What would speaking to them solve? This is not a legal matter, it is a civil matter.--snip--

Incorrect. It is a legal matter.

There are criminal law statutes and civil law statutes.

North Carolina Property Statutes Chapters 47A- 47F and 116A-116B
http://real-estate.lawyers.com/land...eal-Property-Codes-and-Statutes-Websites.html

ncwabbit · Dec 5, 2012

NC-Heel said:
snip... Otherwise conceal till you get to your car or carry it in a gun related container (that is not considered concealing but rather transporting). Common areas are not considered your property for concealed carry. This has been discussed when carrying on property owned by a HOA. SNIP...

They can not stop you from having a firearm in your apartment but they can ask you not to open carry on common areas. snip... You have no legal statutes or recourse to back you up. If you want to open carry you will need to get permission or find a different place to live.

NC-Heel, once again you provide guidance w/o any reference or cite as well as advocate this citizen break the law by carrying concealed w/o a CHP!! For the sake of argument...what if the property manager or neighbors see and report this individual for this infraction it could cause him to lose his licensure followed shortly by his job.

Wabbit
ps: SEO...check out what Grapeshot provided +++...

pps: do not talk to the Property Management at this time until you are conversant on the property statutes. speaking from personal experience on this type of issue...i have had PM's state verbally...'no problem' and then 1) attempt to raise the rent 2) seek legal counsel to throw my cotton tail out for not paying the raised rent portion!

Click to expand...

NC-Heel · Dec 5, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Incorrect. It is a legal matter.

There are criminal law statutes and civil law statutes.

North Carolina Property Statutes Chapters 47A- 47F and 116A-116B
http://real-estate.lawyers.com/land...eal-Property-Codes-and-Statutes-Websites.html

Good job context patrol. It is easy to see what I meant when I said civil and legal (criminal).

NC-Heel · Dec 5, 2012

SEO said:
Yes, I leave for work in uniform with my company issued weapon and all of my gear. Management knows this and this is not a problem. My concern is transporting or getting my personal firearm to my vehicle while off duty and going about my personal business.

Speak to them pertaining open carry to and from your vehicle while in civilian attire. I seriously doubt they will change their guidelines for you but they may make an exception for you if it is understood that it will only be from and to the vehicle. Maybe wearing your badge, if allowed by your employer, will help convince them. If that wont fly your options are concealed carry or transporting it in a case. I don't know what else you are looking for, there are no statutes that will allow you to open carry without regard to the stipulations in the lease.

davidmcbeth · Dec 5, 2012

Does the lease define firearm? If it does not, the LL would have a hard time proving the issue...could be a BB gun for all he knows.

Burden is on the LL ...

Grapeshot · Dec 5, 2012

Originally Posted by NC-Heel

What would speaking to them solve? This is not a legal matter, it is a civil matter.--snip--

Grapeshot said:
Incorrect. It is a legal matter.

There are criminal law statutes and civil law statutes.

North Carolina Property Statutes Chapters 47A- 47F and 116A-116B
http://real-estate.lawyers.com/land...eal-Property-Codes-and-Statutes-Websites.html

NC-Heel said:
Good job context patrol. It is easy to see what I meant when I said civil and legal (criminal).

Verbiage and content are most important - especially when attempting to give advise/opinion on this forum. It is suggested that you reread Rule #1. When people read what you have written ("not a legal matter") that may well be what they remember from your less than precise posting.

You would seem to have a problem with the forum rules and the application of them by a Moderator. That is unfortunate. Will presume that you have received my PM - whether you chose to read it and follow the message or not is your decision.

SEO · Dec 5, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Verbiage and content are most important - especially when attempting to give advise/opinion on this forum. It is suggested that you reread Rule #1. When people read what you have written ("not a legal matter") that may well be what they remember from your less than precise posting.

You would seem to have a problem with the forum rules and the application of them by a Moderator. That is unfortunate. Will presume that you have received my PM - whether you chose to read it and follow the message or not is your decision.

Grapeshot: I have not received a PM from you yet. Thanks for your help.

Question concerning Carrying at my Apartment, thoughts welcomed...

SEO

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