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A bill to help people who OC w/o a CPL

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
This bill does not seem to be getting a lot of attention here, but I think it may be helpful to some of us who do not have a CPL.

H.B.5282 Transport of firearm-

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vr...g.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2012-HB-5282

MCRGO indicates this bill (along with HB5225) have been reported out of Senate Judiciary and is now before the full Senate. They expect both of the bills will be adopted by the Senate within the coming week. HB 5282 will likely be signed by the governor, HB5225(registration & PP repeal) appears to be headed for a pocket veto. We can all thank the MSP & Sheriffs Association for the death of 5225.
 

FreeInAZ

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http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billintroduced/House/htm/2012-HIB-5282.htm

HOUSE BILL No. 5282

January 24, 2012, Introduced by Rep. Rendon and referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

A bill to amend 1931 PA 328, entitled

"The Michigan penal code,"

by amending section 231a (MCL 750.231a), as amended by 2008 PA 196.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

Sec. 231a. (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to

any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol

concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of

residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with

a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as

merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to

manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm, [strike]as defined in


subsection (2), [/strike]completely unloaded in a closed case or container

designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful

purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor

vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422,

and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the

storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful

purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor

vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422,

and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the

storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is

not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section, :

[strike] (a) "Antique[/strike] "ANTIQUE firearm" means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or

conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and

manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock,

percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of

such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before

1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United

States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of

commercial trade.

[strike] (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting

area.


(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her

home or place of business and place of repair.

(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to

another place of abode or business.

(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a

law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law

enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of

business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public

shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is

permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private

property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by

law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. [/strike]
 

Attachments

  • HB5282.pdf
    69.8 KB · Views: 60
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xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Really all it does is makes the language of the law less confusing. To me really doesn't help much and it's a bill that the GOP can say they helped gun rights in Michigan. Although its better to get this passed than not.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
Really all it does is makes the language of the law less confusing. To me really doesn't help much and it's a bill that the GOP can say they helped gun rights in Michigan. Although its better to get this passed than not.

It is definitely not a "major" win, that is for sure, but some police were trying to use the listed exemptions as the only valid ones.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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Just a point to think about. Notice that it took just under a year for this benign bill to get near to becoming / editing a law. Lansing is a cluster BLEEP! I would not hold my breath waiting for any meaningful pro 2A legislation to come out of this gang of turtles.:rolleyes:
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
Remove the following, and it has my support,

(d.)..............in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful

purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor

vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422,

and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the

storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is

not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

HB5282, just simply confirms what we already knew. In Michigan, to get what you're asking for is going to take ConCarry to do it IMO - it's going to be a while.
 

Yance

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
568
Location
Battle Creek, MI
I had dealt with a State trooper in 2010 and he was telling me that you could ONLY transport a pistol for the reasons listed in the law, so I said "well how do people transport for lawful open carry?" His response: "its a grey area" which is very much false. To see this change, though not huge, I think is necessary just to save people the headache of dealing with one of those cops that refuses to know any better.
 

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
I had dealt with a State trooper in 2010 and he was telling me that you could ONLY transport a pistol for the reasons listed in the law, so I said "well how do people transport for lawful open carry?" His response: "its a grey area" which is very much false. To see this change, though not huge, I think is necessary just to save people the headache of dealing with one of those cops that refuses to know any better.

The best bet is to get a CPL like most others......this elimates most grey areas.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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Location
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The best bet is to get a CPL like most others......this elimates most grey areas.

Easier said than done for some of us.......

Mi law is chalked full of nonsense in my opinion. Many miss the fact that Mi law has no penalty for a pd that won't issue a pp. All a pd need do is simply say no to someone they do not like for whatever reason. They are supposed to flag that person in the LEIN system, but do not have to. Once flagged a person is supposed to get a chance to appear before a MSP review board to explain what is their side of the story. Guess what this is almost unheard of. This effectively strips the person of their right to buy a pistol. As for Cpls it is even easier to quash those. All a pd has to do is send them a letter saying whatever... It is then upto the individual to mount a legal action at great expense usually to prove they are worthy of the rights they have been denied. Those who live in Wayne co. Which has one of the worst gun boards in my experience. You keep feeling safe with your little blue permission slip. Just hope you don't offend the wrong overlord or you could experience first hand what I'm talking about.
 
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xmanhockey7

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Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Mi law is chalked full of nonsense in my opinion. BL misses the fact that Mi law has no penalty for a pd that won't issue a pp. All a pd need do is simply say no to someone they do not like for whatever reason. They are supposed to flag that person in the LEIN system, but do not have to. Once flagged a person is supposed to get a chance to appear before a MSP review board to explain what is their side of the story. Guess what this is almost unheard of. This effectively strips the person of their right to buy a pistol. As for Cpls it is even easier to quash those. All a pd has to do is send them a letter saying whatever... It is then upto the individual to mount a legal action at great expense usually to prove they are worthy of the rights they have been denied. BL you live in Wayne co. Which has one of the worst gun boards in my experience. You keep feeling safe with your little blue permission slip. Just hope you don't offend the wrong overlord or you could experience first hand what I'm talking about.

BL was talking about the transportation of pistols and the whole "lawful purpose". Some of us cannot get a CPL due to age, minor infraction of the law, cost, etc.
 

FreeInAZ

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BL was talking about the transportation of pistols and the whole "lawful purpose". Some of us cannot get a CPL due to age, minor infraction of the law, cost, etc.

I know. I was just pointing out to those who may not know it, just how fragile their rights are under mi law.
 

FreeInAZ

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I thought we had Legislation to allow OC with out a CPL...The 2nd Amendment, and Article 1 Section 6?

Yes & No. Under the current system as I was pointing out. Anyone can be denied a purchase permit for any reason by a local pd. There is no punishment for a pd. So the question is this? If a pd can deny you (illegally) and face no ramifications, is A1 Sect. 6 worth the paper it's written on in MI? Little hard to open carry a pistol you cannot buy under Mi law? On topic this bill clarifies things for officers and agents of the courts in Mi who are professional word smiths. So it is in my opinion a good first step.

I now live in AZ. No purchase permits, No registration and constitutional carry. Guess what? Less gun crime than you have in MI. So that blows holes in the whole pp & registration stop gun crime arguments - in most rational people's minds. :rolleyes:
 
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jeremiahJohnson

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
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Location
fenton, Michigan, USA
Yes & No. Under the current system as I was pointing out. Anyone can be denied a purchase permit for any reason by a local pd. There is no punishment for a pd. So the question is this? If a pd can deny you (illegally) and face no ramifications, is A1 Sect. 6 worth the paper it's written on in MI? Little hard to open carry a pistol you cannot buy under Mi law? On topic this bill clarifies things for officers and agents of the courts in Mi who are professional word smiths. So it is in my opinion a good first step.

I now live in AZ. No purchase permits, No registration and constitutional carry. Guess what? Less gun crime than you have in MI. So that blows holes in the whole pp & registration stop gun crime arguments - in most rational people's minds. :rolleyes:

The Law is only as good as the people who are willing to fight to make sure the Law is followed. Instead of getting a purchase permit, we should get Class Action Law suit against the people who pass these unconstitutional laws, or instead of buying a pistol we should boycott the Gun makers and sellers until they help us fight against the Politicians. After all it's the Manufacturers and sellers of Pistols who should have raged against purchase permits.
 
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