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Thread: Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

    "A bill condemning detention provisions written into the National Defense Authorization Act and blocking any state cooperation with federal agents attempting to detain people in Michigan without due process unanimously passed the Michigan House Wednesday."
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

    Good luck to them in the Senate....
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Wow!
    It passed 107-0.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Good luck to them in the Senate....
    Why?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  5. #5
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

    The Senate isn't big on civil rights, it seems...

    In our current environment you have to ask this question: how does Rick S feel about it?

    If he likes it, it'll pass. If he doesn't, it's destined to fail.
    Last edited by TheQ; 12-06-2012 at 01:28 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Considering the NDAA stuff does not apply to US Citizens, or (unfortunately) non citizens within the US this is completely pointless, and amounts to nothing more than the legislature saying, "look how politically correct, and stupid we are".

    Just look at the source in the first post.
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 12-06-2012 at 07:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The Senate isn't big on civil rights, it seems...

    In our current environment you have to ask this question: how does Rick S feel about it?

    If he likes it, it'll pass. If he doesn't, it's destined to fail.
    Foreign terrorists captured overseas trying to murder innocent people, and American Soldiers have no civil rights.

    They are not covered under the US Constitution, nor are they covered under the Geneva Convention (unless you want to call them spies, and saboteurs than be my guest, look what Geneva says we can do with them.), nor any other rule, article, or convention of war. They are not entitled to any rights nor do they deserve them. Once we torture all useful information out of them (and i mean REAL torture, to bad we don't actually do that.) they should be executed by slow torture, and then fed to pigs.
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 12-06-2012 at 07:54 PM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Foreign terrorists captured overseas trying to murder innocent people, and American Soldiers have no civil rights.

    They are not covered under the US Constitution, nor are they covered under the Geneva Convention (unless you want to call them spies, and saboteurs than be my guest, look what Geneva says we can do with them.), nor any other rule, article, or convention of war. They are not entitled to any rights nor do they deserve them. Once we torture all useful information out of them (and i mean REAL torture, to bad we don't actually do that.) they should be executed by slow torture, and then fed to pigs.
    Wow, that's pretty harsh. I never pictured you as being so vehemently anti-U.S. Soldier.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Re: Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Foreign terrorists captured overseas trying to murder innocent people, and American Soldiers have no civil rights.

    They are not covered under the US Constitution, nor are they covered under the Geneva Convention (unless you want to call them spies, and saboteurs than be my guest, look what Geneva says we can do with them.), nor any other rule, article, or convention of war. They are not entitled to any rights nor do they deserve them. Once we torture all useful information out of them (and i mean REAL torture, to bad we don't actually do that.) they should be executed by slow torture, and then fed to pigs.
    The reason we don't use "real" torture is because it doesn't work.

    Do you want them to give you good info or just tell you what you want to hear?

    What they currently do is much more effective. Excessive noise, sleep deprivation, psychological games. It has already been proven to work. Even waterboarding is nothing more than a psychological mind ****. You aren't drowning, you just feel like and think you are.

    Torture is inefficient. As soon as you start pulling fingernails they'll say anything to atop the pain. What they say us always just what you wanted to hear. Not good.

    Tap'n while driving...
    Last edited by Anonymouse; 12-06-2012 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    One man's terrorist is another man's hero.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    One man's terrorist is another man's hero.
    If bin laden, or any of the animals we are currently fighting are anyone's hero they should join them in there punishment. Someone who would happily strap a bomb to themselves, and blow up a bus full of children, or fly a plane in to a building is not a hero, they are not even human, and thus should not be treated as such.

    Ask yourself does the guy (for lack of a better word) who if given the chance would happily saw off your wife's, and child's heads with a dull machete then post the video on youtube all because they do not believe as he does deserve a civilian trial, and humane treatment?

    Imagine it's not a theoretical, it has just happened to you, do you still think he deserves a trial in a civilian court, and a prayer rug, copy of the koran, and 3 hot meals a day, free housing, cable TV, and internet access for the rest of his worthless life all at taxpayer expense? Also he was captured over seas, and is not a US citizen.

    I think he should be tortured to death, and fed to pigs.
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 12-10-2012 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Wow, that's pretty harsh. I never pictured you as being so vehemently anti-U.S. Soldier.

    Bronson
    What in that makes you think I'm anti U.S. soldier? Or are you trying to equate them with terrorists like the left does all the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    The reason we don't use "real" torture is because it doesn't work.

    Do you want them to give you good info or just tell you what you want to hear?

    What they currently do is much more effective. Excessive noise, sleep deprivation, psychological games. It has already been proven to work. Even waterboarding is nothing more than a psychological mind ****. You aren't drowning, you just feel like and think you are.

    Torture is inefficient. As soon as you start pulling fingernails they'll say anything to atop the pain. What they say us always just what you wanted to hear. Not good.

    Tap'n while driving...
    Torture is indeed unreliable to extract confessions, but not as an interrogation tool. Yes they may lie, but they may lie (and would) without torture to, which is why a good interrogator will also ask questions he already knows the answer to. Lieing results in more torture.

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    Re: Bill in Michigan to prevent NDAA

    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Torture is indeed unreliable to extract confessions, but not as an interrogation tool. Yes they may lie, but they may lie (and would) without torture to, which is why a good interrogator will also ask questions he already knows the answer to. Lieing results in more torture.
    The point of interrogations is to obtain new info or verify info. Reliable info doesn't come from torture.

    Everyone is advocating for torture. There's a reason the military doesn't torture. I personally don't consider waterboarding torture.

    The info they've obtained kinda proves my point.

    If torture worked then they would use it.

    Don't believe me? How about a former Fed interrogator...

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-5011381.html

    Tap'n while driving...
    Last edited by Anonymouse; 12-10-2012 at 09:57 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    What in that makes you think I'm anti U.S. soldier? Or are you trying to equate them with terrorists like the left does all the time?
    Ummm, no. I'm trying to say that not only do words mean things but so does comma placement. The way you have your sentence written it states that foreign terrorists and American Soldiers have no civil rights. I was only playing around....take the stick out and breathe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Foreign terrorists captured overseas trying to murder innocent people, and American Soldiers have no civil rights.
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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