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Thread: WI (Wausau): Concealed carry law prevented road rage injury.

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    WI (Wausau): Concealed carry law prevented road rage injury.

    WAUSAU, WI (WSAU) - A Tuesday road rage incident handled by Wausau police appears to have been minimized because the victim carried a legal handgun.
    Read entire story here.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    ...but there will be blood in the streets and shoot outs for the smallest fender bender...

    Reality: Law abiding citizens who carry firearms stop crimes against them.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    chalk another one up for the good guys

    Hey WAVE whats your take on this story looks like a LAC stopped the violence with his firearm
    SCOTT

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    Regular Member Yetiman's Avatar
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    As seen in the comments below that story :

    Moral of the story; "Don't bring keys to a gun fight" LoL

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I agree he was completely justified in his actions when confronted with 2 attackers, esp. since they'd already done him violence.
    BUT...
    Why was he out of his car?
    a) it's chilly - wait in the car with the heater on, on the phone with 911, 'til the cops show up
    b) didn't he see them following him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I agree he was completely justified in his actions when confronted with 2 attackers, esp. since they'd already done him violence.
    BUT...
    Why was he out of his car?
    a) it's chilly - wait in the car with the heater on, on the phone with 911, 'til the cops show up
    b) didn't he see them following him?
    The way that I read it, the attackers got out of the car and tried to beat him. I could be wrong but the local news had the Appleton man on tape (dispatch) saying that the attackers have left their car and are coming over to his car.
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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what his shirt says? If it's pro obama that would be just perfect.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    The story has been updated. It does not look like this guy was an innocent victim according to this story. If he really was playing the brake slam game, he escalated the road rage incident and then pulled a gun when they confronted him in the parking lot. They were stupid to confront him instead of waiting for police. http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/...-rage-incident
    If you read the comments for that story, people claim that he (the gunman) has a history of violence. WCCAP shows someone with that name who has a record of violence including aggressive and unsafe driving citations and a restraining order against him.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 12-07-2012 at 08:27 AM.

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Yes it would appear both sides handled the situation poorly.

    Who knows what to believe in this typical my "word against his" situation. I would hope Mr. Minivan, having children inside, would not have been the instigator in this mess. Given the CCL holder's purported tendencies (and assuming they're accurate), could be the CCL holder is the bad guy here.
    Last edited by Trip20; 12-07-2012 at 11:03 AM.

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    Another case of the frist one to call police maybe.

    if he had a vaild restaining order out against him most likely he shouldn't have had a firearm to begain with.

    A lot of people can have the same name as some one on WCCAP dob and other info might be need to know who is who.

    Might be a very good case of defensive display compared to always shoot when you pull a weapon. Some states defensive display is illegal but not in Wis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Another case of the frist one to call police maybe.

    if he had a vaild restaining order out against him most likely he shouldn't have had a firearm to begain with.

    A lot of people can have the same name as some one on WCCAP dob and other info might be need to know who is who.

    Might be a very good case of defensive display compared to always shoot when you pull a weapon. Some states defensive display is illegal but not in Wis.
    Unless Wisconsin has a law to the contrary, having a simple restraining order against you does not remove your RKBA. The only orders that can affect your RKBA are Domestic Violence Orders and they are handled very poorly and with only one party in mind.

    Anyone can get a restraining order on anyone else, and a judge will grant them because they can. There is no burden of proof or reasonable doubt in the process. `Just because he has a possible restraining order does NOT make him a bad person. Someone could have got it because he carried a gun and they were scared because he did so -- you just never know nor can we judge him for it.

    As for the TRAFFIC CITATIONS, they should be irrelevant in this story. A week after I received my DL I was given a ticket for Wreckless Driving and Improper Start. If I were to be judged as some are trying to judge this man, then they would say the same thing about me. What was I doing to get these citations? Racing my Camaro. I was NOT being violent or doing anything that I believe was wrong (I was on a empty street with only one other car that I was racing, and no one in sight).

    We need the facts before we attempt to judge someone (which we shouldn't do anyways), and for all we know this guy could be the nicest guy in the world and has bad luck or has been dealt a shi**y hand.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Unless Wisconsin has a law to the contrary, having a simple restraining order against you does not remove your RKBA. The only orders that can affect your RKBA are Domestic Violence Orders and they are handled very poorly and with only one party in mind.

    Anyone can get a restraining order on anyone else, and a judge will grant them because they can. There is no burden of proof or reasonable doubt in the process. `Just because he has a possible restraining order does NOT make him a bad person. Someone could have got it because he carried a gun and they were scared because he did so -- you just never know nor can we judge him for it.

    As for the TRAFFIC CITATIONS, they should be irrelevant in this story. A week after I received my DL I was given a ticket for Wreckless Driving and Improper Start. If I were to be judged as some are trying to judge this man, then they would say the same thing about me. What was I doing to get these citations? Racing my Camaro. I was NOT being violent or doing anything that I believe was wrong (I was on a empty street with only one other car that I was racing, and no one in sight).

    We need the facts before we attempt to judge someone (which we shouldn't do anyways), and for all we know this guy could be the nicest guy in the world and has bad luck or has been dealt a shi**y hand.
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/cvs/Victi...ing_orders.asp

    Guns
    A restraining order can order that your abuser cannot have guns. For Domestic Abuse and Child Abuse restraining orders, the court will automatically make an order that says the abuser cannot own/possess a gun. For others orders, it is up to the court to decide about this issue.
    There can be some specific exceptions made if the restraining order is against a police officer or member of the military to allow them to carry their duty gun only when working.


    I love the last part...
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    A lot of unknowns in the story, we well have to wait and see how it plays out
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I get out I open up his door, I grabbed his belt and I'm trying to pull him out of his vehicle before he can reach his firearm," said [minivan guy].
    [Minivan guy] said [armed man] was the instigator, so he started hitting back in order to protect his family.
    [Minivan guy] has admitted to battery on [armed man], opening the car & grabbing him.
    To protect his family, he gets closer to the threat? Again, why not drive away, keep telling police where you are? Stay in the car.
    Hopefully the Menard's parking lot has cameras which will show the truth, at least of what happened in the parking lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by minivan guy
    He not only pointed it, he cocked his gun, made sure there was a bullet in the chamber and pointed it at us
    So [armed man] supposedly had his gun under his seat & unloaded?
    Betcha that changes; also maybe he'll keep his door locked.
    And while anything is possible, I just don't see someone with a Lexus using it as he's alleged to have done, at least not without great provocation. People with luxury cars generally like them & want them to stay nice.

    [Armed man] added [minivan passenger] came toward him and said, "What are you going to do? Shoot me?"
    "I picked the gun up and I raised it and I pointed it at her and then she started to walk away after that and I lowered the gun and put it down at my side, put the safe on and a minute later or so the police arrived"
    But didn't it originally say he held both of them at gunpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by minivan guy
    the guy stopped short on us twice. I do agree we could have handled the situation a little bit better, but I was protecting my children from a crazed man with a gun
    Neither one says the gun came out on the freeway, only once they got to the parking lot.
    The solution to someone playing those kinds of games (whichever of them started it) is to put distance between you & him. Slow down, exit, etc. If he's causing problems for other drivers (maybe he starts driving slower & slower to still cause problems for you) other people will start calling 911 on him too.

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    Following some one into a parking lot and confronting them about their driveing is not protecting your children.

    It is being really stuip.

    As I have gotten and hopefully wiser I let a lot of things slide and people go on their way.

    When the wife and I were traveling across very rural NM last spring at night I came up behind a slower vehicle I check for up and comeing traffic notice head lights way back. I signeled and changed lanes and started to pass all of sudden there was the appoaching vehicle was right on behind me. They had to be doing a hundred or better to catch me that fast I was doing 75 plus.

    They were laying on the horn I speed up a little completed the pass. The other vehicle pulled up along side me and they started to flip me off the front passinger and rear passinger dropped their pants and mooned us. As i was quite a ways in front of the vehicle I just passed and they were along side me. I just tapped my brakes slowed down abit and that put them in front of me giving me some time and distance.

    I had the tactical advanage at that point my Glock was very available with and AR for backup. They slowed a little bit also but not enough to get back along side me. They must have decided that they had their fun and mooning us was enough the wife was shocked.

    I was just thinking you picked the wrong vehicle and person to screw with. I was planning the fight from the time they layed on the horn. They most likely thought just another couple of harmless snow birds.

    It most likely would have turned out a lot worse for all of us if I would have comfronted them some how. Flipping them off showing my gun ,my fist ect.

    By backing off I showed them I did not want to confront them,gave me a tactical advanage and proven defense that I didn't want the fight. I was will prepared to shoot all three of them or cause them to lose control of their vehicle loseing control of a vehicle at highway speeds with out having their seatbelts on would have had very dire effects on them.

    As it was they speed off and we went on are way.
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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    WI (Wausau): Concealed carry law prevented road rage injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Following some one into a parking lot and confronting them about their driveing is not protecting your children.

    It is being really stuip.
    I could be wrong, but I remember reading in one of the posted stories above that each vehicle was on the phone with 911 and they were both directed to go to the Menard's parking lot to wait for officers to arrive. If that is true, I think the 911 operator made a mistake directing two confrontational parties to the same area.

    Still doesn't excuse getting out of the vehicle to confront.
    Last edited by Trip20; 12-08-2012 at 12:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/cvs/Victi...ing_orders.asp

    Guns
    A restraining order can order that your abuser cannot have guns. For Domestic Abuse and Child Abuse restraining orders, the court will automatically make an order that says the abuser cannot own/possess a gun. For others orders, it is up to the court to decide about this issue.
    There can be some specific exceptions made if the restraining order is against a police officer or member of the military to allow them to carry their duty gun only when working.


    I love the last part...
    This is absurd! They can take away your 2A for a simple restraining order? That is nonsense! Anyone can get a restraining order at any time! Has any of this ever been challenged?

    And you are right about the last part -- I never would have thought Wisconsin would have been a police state. They obviously have more entitlement to rights than the Citizens of the State in the eyes of the legislators. Rubbish!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-09-2012 at 05:44 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    You can lose your 2nd amendments rights for a lot of things.

    Every day your rights are denied without court action.

    Every time you have to leave your weapon because of a no guns allowed sign. Or your not allowed to shop,visit,have lunch, ride public transit.

    Your not even allowed in back of the bus,your not even allowed in the store let alone sitting at the counter.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Re: WI (Wausau): Concealed carry law prevented road rage injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    You can lose your 2nd amendments rights for a lot of things.

    Every day your rights are denied without court action.

    Every time you have to leave your weapon because of a no guns allowed sign. Or your not allowed to shop,visit,have lunch, ride public transit.

    Your not even allowed in back of the bus,your not even allowed in the store let alone sitting at the counter.
    You are mixing 2a rights vs private property rights.

    The 2a protects us from government intrusion. So, a restaurant banning carry will never be a 2a violation even in a strictly Constitutional society.

    Post offices and other government buildings including schools, yes 2a.

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    Paul as soon as the anti's/goverment start letting private property owners stop letting people onto or into their property because of so call other civil rights I will agree with you about property rights.


    But if they can't stop some one because of race, Religion or sexual preference , they shouldn't beable to stop you from carrying a firearm any more then, they should stop you from carrying a bible.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    WI (Wausau): Concealed carry law prevented road rage injury.

    Sheriff friend in the county where this occurred confirmed witnesses on scene show the minivan folks were the aggressors in the parking lot.

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