Horrible Encounter Open Carrying at Save A Lot

Jeff. State · Dec 10, 2012

Sorry for your encounter. Hit back as hard as you can legally, LE needs to be reminded everyday that we still have rights and they cannot trample them.

Would be great if you could post the video.

stagmie · Dec 11, 2012

What town?

xxsilvertigerxx said:
I went to Save A Lot .

Maybe I missed it, but what town were you in?

xxsilvertigerxx · Dec 12, 2012

stagmie said:
Maybe I missed it, but what town were you in?

Mobile, AL

eamelhorn · Dec 13, 2012

I have OC'ed in the Sav-a-lot in Ripley WV no issue's. The check out clerk was a bit nervous, they have a sign posted that they have a plain clothes security gaurd. I did notice that there was a man that followed me thur the store, but no interaction. Once a buddy being silly in the store, yelled out he has a gun, he is an ex meter monitor in Ripley. But I wasnt OC'ing that day, still no issue's. I told the clerk, something told me not to OC in there today. The reason I dis-armed was I was going fishing and carrying my Judge with .410 shot for snakes. It's a bit large and intimidating, so I left it in the car and just had my holster on. Still some people are just very ignorant about OC and think you will go to jail if you OC.

Ctclassic · Dec 13, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
Why did you sit there? I would have told the guard "piss off and leave me alone" and walk out.

What's he going to do?

That's EXACTLY the wrong attitude to take!! It takes away from all the hard work that the OC community has put forth so the general public does look at 'us' as a bunch of a**holes with firearms on our hips!! Instead, take a more positive appoach and politely tell the SG that he is misinformed and that OC IS legal and he is welcome to jot down my plate number as I drive away and have the PD come to my house so we can discuss it. Then, tell him your be contacting management on the situation. THINK before you act out David, you'll do us all proud!

KBCraig · Dec 13, 2012

Along with the good advice about how to proceed with the Mobile PD, you also need to follow up with the store.

Find the contact for their district or regional manager, if any (Sav A Lot might just be a merchandiser and brand for independently owned stores; find out the local store's ownership, first). Then, write politely, expressing your concern that the store manager didn't know what his policy was, and simply deferred to a contract security guard's opinion.

thebigsd · Dec 13, 2012

Soooooo OP, can we get an update? How have you decided to pursue this, if at all? Did you file a FOIA request? If not, and you want to, I can help. PM me. Have you contacted anyone? Have you received any responses?

xxsilvertigerxx · Dec 14, 2012

thebigsd said:
Soooooo OP, can we get an update? How have you decided to pursue this, if at all? Did you file a FOIA request? If not, and you want to, I can help. PM me. Have you contacted anyone? Have you received any responses?

I have e mail Save a lot Corporation three times. They told me that their stores has an OC friendly policy. They have open a case file into what has happen.

My family runs and own a package store and a very busy gasstation in Mobile. The area that the gasstation is in is not a very safe area. That is the main reason why i OC. The gasstation three blocks from that Save a lot where this happen. So, the police that was at Save a Lot work the same area as my business. My family ask me not to sue and start any trouble with the police because we have to work with them on a regular basis.

So, after Save a lot Corporation give me a answer i will try to get a meeting with the Chief of police or someone high in the police department to talk with the other police so that this will not happen again.

Citizen · Dec 15, 2012

xxsilvertigerxx said:
I have e mail Save a lot Corporation three times. They told me that their stores has an OC friendly policy. They have open a case file into what has happen.

My family runs and own a package store and a very busy gasstation in Mobile. The area that the gasstation is in is not a very safe area. That is the main reason why i OC. The gasstation three blocks from that Save a lot where this happen. So, the police that was at Save a Lot work the same area as my business. My family ask me not to sue and start any trouble with the police because we have to work with them on a regular basis.

So, after Save a lot Corporation give me a answer i will try to get a meeting with the Chief of police or someone high in the police department to talk with the other police so that this will not happen again.

I understand the politcal implications (family and working with police.)

Nonetheless, the police may not be willing to work with you. I would urge at least a written complaint. It doesn't even have to be a complaint, just a report to the Chief of less-than-optimum conduct by his officers. You really want a paper trail on this. Verbal discussions don't get documented. And, thus police, if so inclined, can ignore the problem or pretend they were never notified of that event, meaning you have to start from scratch whenever you do decide to start documenting things if they don't discontinue the abuses. If nothing else, you can write up the report and hand it to the police when you meet with them. The important point is that it is written.

Ca Patriot · Dec 17, 2012

post the video.

UrbanArmed · Dec 17, 2012

Ca Patriot said:
post the video.

Yeah I was scrolling through looking for the video someplace.
Has the video been posted for this incident?

My Blog - Urban Armed

Double_J · Dec 20, 2012

Sue them

Consult an attorney and SUE the PANTS off the city of Mobile, and the officers personally. I do understand the issues of not wanting to rock the boat b/c of dealing with LEO's in the gas station and package store. The other part of this is what if it happened to someone else who did not have those issues. The city and officers need to be instructed the proper way to handle those complaints, not "fake arrest" someone in the back of the store.

Should you sue and win/settle out of court keep records of ALL LEO activity through your stores to verify that there is no underhanded payback. Should there be, sue them again and again until they learn not to be stupid. This will not be an easy thing, but the right thing rarely ever is.

saiga12boy · Dec 21, 2012

Title 42

There's a lawsuit called title 42 that as long as you didin't damage someone or their property and say cops arrest you for open carrying you can sue them for $250,000 or more. I don't have very much information on it so please look it up yourself but I am gonna learn more about it soon. This doesen't just apply to guns it can apply to just going 1 mile over the speed limit and being pulled over. Then they will know not to mess with you.

davidmcbeth · Dec 26, 2012

Ctclassic said:
That's EXACTLY the wrong attitude to take!! It takes away from all the hard work that the OC community has put forth so the general public does look at 'us' as a bunch of a**holes with firearms on our hips!! Instead, take a more positive appoach and politely tell the SG that he is misinformed and that OC IS legal and he is welcome to jot down my plate number as I drive away and have the PD come to my house so we can discuss it. Then, tell him your be contacting management on the situation. THINK before you act out David, you'll do us all proud!

That's terrible advice .... IMO ... best course of action is to defuse the situation by leaving. The OP sat there and wanted to "teach" them & what did he get for his troubles? Arrested.

Assume the guy believed what he said, that its illegal...now you walk toward him...what's he going to think?

Just tell them to piss off and walk away....who are you trying to convert? An idiot?

WalkingWolf · Dec 27, 2012

What color is the new vehicle you will be getting in the future? Sue both the store and the police.

BTW I agree that he should not have waited for police, there was no need. I would have went home and contacted Save a Lot corporate and relay that you were threatened by management(calling police for lawful act).

Brimstone Baritone · Dec 28, 2012

xxsilvertigerxx said:
They told me that i was not allow back to Save A Lot because the security guard did not want me back there.

This is the part that got my attention. Why would you trust the word of an officer regarding firearm law if he doesn't even understand the basics of trespassing law in Alabama. The police cannot trespass you from private property, and neither can the security guard (unless he happens to be the property owner or manager slumming for a day). Not that I'd go back there in any case, on principle alone.

Sue, if you haven't already. It's the only way they'll learn.

Edit to agree with davidmcbeth: You should have just left. Hell, you were in the process of leaving anyway. You went out of your way to have a confrontation by staying when you were already leaving. What did you hope to gain? No matter. Done is done. But I still say sue. The police need to learn that they can't just make up the law as they go along, and say "My bad" when they handcuff a law-abiding citizen for no reason.

49er · Dec 29, 2012

The title of the paper at the following link may be a little deceiving. It contains plenty of useful information about stop, arrest and detention in Alabama according to both federal and state case law:

THE LAW of TRAFFIC STOPS
The Stop, Detention, Investigation, and Arrest of a Motorist or Passenger by
Alabama Law Enforcement Authority – State and Federal Cases
Cases current through November 1, 2009

http://www.mahaneylaw.com/files/the_law_of_traffic_stops.pdf

"... This “mistake of law”- “mistake of fact” distinction is important. Under Alabama law, law
enforcement officers are presumed to know the law they are enforcing. Reviewing courts will
nearly always give great deference to a law enforcement officer’s mistaken belief of fact, but no
such deference is afforded the officer’s mistaken belief of law. Where the seizure is
accomplished under the officer’s incorrect or deficient knowledge of law, no lawful authority
exits to support the seizure..."

ixtow · Jan 1, 2013

xxsilvertigerxx said:
I am not considering a lawsuit because i was not arrested

Yes, you were.

xxsilvertigerxx said:
so i think it would be hard to win the case.

No, from what you said you might not even need an attorney... They'd probably settle.

xxsilvertigerxx said:
And, if i did win i think the attorney would get all of the money. I think they did run the serial number of the gun because they had it for a long time but not sure. I do not think they deleted my brother's recording. But i have not looked at them yet so not sure.

You've got a full stack of things to sue their pants off with, and it's all a matter of settled law. With a weekend worth of cramming, you could do this yourself.

But you'd rather train the cops that they can get away with this?

I hope the next guy these ******* cops attack will be a little more American about it.

[sigh]

Brimstone Baritone · Jan 1, 2013

I agree with ixtow. I'm sure they never read you the Miranda warning, and I'm sure they never said the words "You're under arrest", but from what you describe you were arrested. You don't have to be taken "downtown" in a police car for you to have been "seized" under the meaning of the fourth amendment, and the courts have recognized that.

You're choosing not to sue. You probably have reasons that you feel are very important not to, but don't try to fool yourself into thinking you don't have any choice.

Horrible Encounter Open Carrying at Save A Lot

Jeff. State

Banned

stagmie

Regular Member

xxsilvertigerxx

New member

eamelhorn

Regular Member

Ctclassic

Regular Member

KBCraig

Regular Member

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member

xxsilvertigerxx

New member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

Ca Patriot

Regular Member

UrbanArmed

New member

Double_J

Regular Member

saiga12boy

Regular Member

davidmcbeth

Banned

WalkingWolf

Regular Member

Brimstone Baritone

Regular Member

49er

Regular Member

ixtow

Founder's Club Member

Brimstone Baritone

Regular Member