Travel to CT

armaborealis · Dec 7, 2012

My family is looking at traveling to, among other places, CT over the holidays to visit friends and family. Obviously being armed on long road trips is a good thing. Regrettably, CT does not honor any other state's CWPs and we are non-residents. Doubly regrettably, CT's laws suck tremendously once I started digging, even transporting a sidearm (even cased, locked, and unloaded) is pretty much illegal except under specific circumstances. It is too late to get the ball rolling on non-resident permits.

I did notice that there are some specific provisions in CT law that allow a non-resident to bring a sidearm into the state.

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

Click to expand...

1) Official training event. My wife is an NRA certified handgun and home firearms safety instructor. If, over the course of the time she is in CT, she teaches an NRA approved class would that qualify as a reason to transport a firearm in CT? Would it have to be a live-fire class at a range, or would the home firearms safety course (non-firing / not at range) qualify?

2) We have participated in formal pistol competition. Would personal practice at a local range qualify for the "format pistol or revolver training" requirement?

3) The law allows you to transport a firearm to be "repaired." Would a $35 cleaning and safety inspection at a gunsmith count?

Would one class, practice session, or repair over the course of a multi-day visit allow the firearm to be transported into the state and stored (unloaded/cased/locked) in a hotel safe or vehicle trunk for the remainder of the time? Obviously a non-firing home firearms safety class (in a private residence) would be best as that is lowest profile/most private.

I figured someone here would have an idea of how "formal pistol or revolver training" is interpreted. I am guessing that the local authorities seize any opportunity to arrest peaceable citizens who dare to exercise their RKBA, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Right now I think we are looking at just carrying pepper spray instead of a firearm and keeping the windows rolled up when transiting the lovely state of CT but wanted to explore the options.

Do I need to contact the CT state troopers or permitting agency or some other CT state agency and ask these questions to get an answer in writing?

Regardless I've already written my senators and representative to urge them to bring nationwide reciprocity back up. It is sorely needed...

Thanks!

skidmark · Dec 7, 2012

armaborealis said:
....

1) Official training event. My wife is an NRA certified handgun and home firearms safety instructor. If, over the course of the time she is in CT, she teaches an NRA approved class would that qualify as a reason to transport a firearm in CT? Would it have to be a live-fire class at a range, or would the home firearms safety course (non-firing / not at range) qualify?

2) We have participated in formal pistol competition. Would personal practice at a local range qualify for the "format pistol or revolver training" requirement?

3) The law allows you to transport a firearm to be "repaired." Would a $35 cleaning and safety inspection at a gunsmith count?

Would one class, practice session, or repair over the course of a multi-day visit allow the firearm to be transported into the state and stored (unloaded/cased/locked) in a hotel safe or vehicle trunk for the remainder of the time? Obviously a non-firing home firearms safety class (in a private residence) would be best as that is lowest profile/most private.

I figured someone here would have an idea of how "formal pistol or revolver training" is interpreted. I am guessing that the local authorities seize any opportunity to arrest peaceable citizens who dare to exercise their RKBA, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Right now I think we are looking at just carrying pepper spray instead of a firearm and keeping the windows rolled up when transiting the lovely state of CT but wanted to explore the options.

Do I need to contact the CT state troopers or permitting agency or some other CT state agency and ask these questions to get an answer in writing?

Regardless I've already written my senators and representative to urge them to bring nationwide reciprocity back up. It is sorely needed...

Thanks!

1 - Probably not, unless you kept the "pistol or revolver" under lock at all other times.

2 - This might probanly fly, but remember that you would need to keep your "pistol or revolver" under lock the rest of the time. I'm going to guess that there is some case law dealing with direcly to/directly from such training.

3 - Probably not, as the trial court would want a really good reason why you could not have attended to that at home. I'm thinking "Because I shot some dude on I-95/I-84 and it needed cleaning" would not help you out very much.

See above re: one-day events covering a span of a number of days. At best yu might get away with bringing your "pistol or revolver" with you some time in advance of the event and storing it in the room/in a hotel safe, but I'm thinking that stored i the trunk is not going to fly. See #2 above.

Never ask the cops for legal information. First of all the odds favor them getting it wrong without even considering they would intentionally give you incorrect info.

Unless you can transport your handgun OC or CC in the other states you are going to be transiting, why are you considering hauling a boat anchor with you? As you mention, there are alternatives you can use for self defense.

Regarding national reciprocity - I disagree with you if for no other reason than it drags the federal camel's nose inside the tent. National reciprocity is not a slippery slope but a cliff with jagged rocks and sharks at the bottom. The feds are not going to model it on the best of the states' laws but on the most restrictive. Intentionall seeking to reach the lowest common denominator stopped being a goal after about the 4th grade.

stay safe.

SPOProds · Dec 7, 2012

2. No, personal practice does not count. It must be a real event.

Rich B · Dec 7, 2012

armaborealis said:
1) Official training event. My wife is an NRA certified handgun and home firearms safety instructor. If, over the course of the time she is in CT, she teaches an NRA approved class would that qualify as a reason to transport a firearm in CT? Would it have to be a live-fire class at a range, or would the home firearms safety course (non-firing / not at range) qualify?

Official events only. You really need a permit to transport a handgun at all in this state unless you fall under FOPA.

http://ctcarry.com/FAQ/Details/dc7cc8e8-2923-4f87-9a51-07fdd40c25bc

2) We have participated in formal pistol competition. Would personal practice at a local range qualify for the "format pistol or revolver training" requirement?

Not likely. Depends on the LEO and the prosecutor though. The law isn't on your side.

3) The law allows you to transport a firearm to be "repaired." Would a $35 cleaning and safety inspection at a gunsmith count?

Would it be worth $10k+ in legal fees to find out?

Would one class, practice session, or repair over the course of a multi-day visit allow the firearm to be transported into the state and stored (unloaded/cased/locked) in a hotel safe or vehicle trunk for the remainder of the time? Obviously a non-firing home firearms safety class (in a private residence) would be best as that is lowest profile/most private.

It is pretty obvious that the statute is discussing someone in their residence in CT having a manner to take their firearms outside of their home to train with or have repaired. You are trying to play games with the laws when you should be speaking with an attorney if you truly want to understand what your chances are of defending yourself from the felony that comes along with carrying a firearm without a permit.

I figured someone here would have an idea of how "formal pistol or revolver training" is interpreted. I am guessing that the local authorities seize any opportunity to arrest peaceable citizens who dare to exercise their RKBA, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Right now I think we are looking at just carrying pepper spray instead of a firearm and keeping the windows rolled up when transiting the lovely state of CT but wanted to explore the options.

Unless you are just passing through (not staying) on your way to another state that allows you to posses the firearm, you are not going to be under the protections of FOPA.

Do I need to contact the CT state troopers or permitting agency or some other CT state agency and ask these questions to get an answer in writing?

Why would you ask the police for legal advice? Ask an attorney. If you did get a letter from a police department or state agency, you would be spending $10k+ in court trying to defend yourself using a letter that will likely be worthless.

If you would like the name of an attorney in Connecticut that you could arrange a consultation with that might be willing to give you legal advice on the matter, I can set that up for you. Legal advice is not cheap though and it does not guarantee that LEOs understand or obey the laws.

davidmcbeth · Dec 7, 2012

Beware Non-CT residents

29-35 does allow non-residents who have a permit in their state to transport a firearm under the conditions noted (I really don't think these conditions are mandatory but that's a story for another day).

The section of 29-35 that allows this is contained within the EXCEPTIONS section

Exceptions are needing to be proved if arrested. A cop does not have to believe you if you say you are going to a formal pistol training or other noted event....nor does he have to believe your permit is still valid ... see requirement for permit (unless state has constitutional carry, most require some type of permit)

...if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides...

Some say that 29-35 allows transport for CT residents to/from range without a permit...not true and dangerous advice.

What can happen? Worst case: cop finds gun (could be in 20 tonnes of cement) .. cop asks for permit .. cop decides permit may be no good .. cop arrests you and takes gun away. Now you go to court and you have to prove: a) you were going to a range or event and b) your permit is valid or was during the time of arrest.
Unfortunately, you get a judge who hates guns and decides your word is not worth anything ... and slams you with the highest penalty he can (and its not a twenty dollar fine).

armaborealis · Dec 8, 2012

skidmark said:
Unless you can transport your handgun OC or CC in the other states you are going to be transiting, why are you considering hauling a boat anchor with you? As you mention, there are alternatives you can use for self defense.

The rest of the trip is all in states that have OC or reciprocity for CC, or are states that are we'd be "just passing through" where FOPA can legitimately be used. CT is the only place with an overnight stop planned that is problematic.

It looks like there is basically no legally safe way for a non resident to visit CT for a few days with a sidearm, even if the pistol or revolver remains unloaded under lock and key... I suspect we'll either just leave everything at home for the whole trip, or maybe look into renting a storage unit across the border in PA for to leave things in before entering occupied territory. I can't imagine that a storage unit in Scranton costs that much.

Insanity. I did the unloaded open carry thing in Kali once while visiting and thought that was bad, but who knew it could be worse?

armaborealis · Dec 8, 2012

Rich B said:
If you would like the name of an attorney in Connecticut that you could arrange a consultation with that might be willing to give you legal advice on the matter, I can set that up for you. Legal advice is not cheap though and it does not guarantee that LEOs understand or obey the laws.

Rich, thanks for the detailed response. I think we will just avoid the situation altogether by leaving any pistols or revolvers outside the state line. I could pay good $$$ to an attorney and STILL get arrested by a cop which would certainly ruin the holidays. If we end up returning to CT in the future the long run approach is probably to provide a "donation" to the state's treasury and get the non-resident permit. That would require planning out a few months in advance though and is just not an option this time.

Having lived in some anti-gun/OC jurisdictions in the past for limited periods of time, I certainly appreciate the tough work y'all do behind enemy lines, but boy, it looks like tough sledding.

davidmcbeth · Dec 8, 2012

armaborealis said:
Insanity.

+1

Travel to CT

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armaborealis

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