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Thread: Question, any help would be appreciated

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    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    Question, any help would be appreciated

    I have my CPL. I keep my gun loaded wherever I take it. I do not carry it hot though, because it has no safety on it. If I am in my car driving, and my gun is right there, can my adult friend who is with me take it and use it if we end up in a situation where it needs to be used? Like if someone comes up to the car demanding I get out, or wants money. Last night, in the apartments right next to me, a 16 year old got shot in the stomach by a 29 year old homeless man, the teens were getting in their car about to leave when this homeless guy walked up to them demanding money and the car. The teen guys took the guy down, and one ended up shot, but he is going to be okay, thank god. What if that was me? Does my friend have to have a license to use the gun when it is a life or death situation, like someone threatening to hurt us if we don't give up money or a car? Or does it have to be me, the owner and licensed one? Thanks!! Been curious about this for a while.
    ~Samantha~

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    http://www.theolympian.com/2012/12/0...d-robbery.html

    Is this the incident you are referring to?
    Is your friend prohibited from possession of a weapon? If not, use of deadly force may be authorized.

    I am not an attorney, but played one in a movie once. Take my advise with a grain of salt and a great deal of personal research.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 12-08-2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: spelig agin
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Only a lawyer can properly answer that question for you. In the meantime, strictly for your entertainment, I would not expect a reasonable prosecutor to go after your friend if it was clear that your lives were in danger. Lots of things can muddy this, though. For example, if your friend is a prohibited person I would never allow a firearm to be within his/her reach.

    Now about carrying unchambered - you need to get a handgun that you are comfortable carrying fully loaded. FULLY loaded means with one in the chamber. There is a reason that we practice shooting one handed. This is the same reason that you carry with one in the chamber. I will not carry a gun with no manual safety and a light trigger because, like you, I don't want to shoot myself. I will carry one with a manual safety or a long trigger pull of at least 10 lbs. I'm confident that I can handle such a firearm without accidentally discharging it. I'm not going to mention brand names unless this thread gets really boring.

    At first I was not comfortable carrying any gun with a round in the chamber, especially IWB in front. The thought of that barrel pointed straight at my pride and joy was not exactly comforting. I've since learned that modern firearms do not go off spontaneously. You can drop them, shake them, stare at them very sternly, and they will just sit there. You have to pull the trigger. Once I caught on to this I tried carrying with one in the chamber and found that I was comfortable with it in less than a week. Now I would never think of carrying any other way. Since I'm supposed to treat every firearm as if it's loaded, it may as well be, right?

    If you ever need that firearm, chances are good that you will need it quickly. Adding the step of working the slide may cost you nothing at all or may cost you everything. I cannot predict which it will be.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    BTW revolver or semi-auto?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    This article at corneredcat.com may help a bit http://www.corneredcat.com/article/h...he-four-rules/ and also look for her stuff on holsters for ladies. There are different considerations and some advantages for gals who pack and Kathy explains things very well. It's a great site and I visit it regularly.

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    What do you mean, "carry it hot"?

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I have my CPL. I keep my gun loaded wherever I take it. I do not carry it hot though, because it has no safety on it. If I am in my car driving, and my gun is right there, can my adult friend who is with me take it and use it if we end up in a situation where it needs to be used? Like if someone comes up to the car demanding I get out, or wants money. Last night, in the apartments right next to me, a 16 year old got shot in the stomach by a 29 year old homeless man, the teens were getting in their car about to leave when this homeless guy walked up to them demanding money and the car. The teen guys took the guy down, and one ended up shot, but he is going to be okay, thank god. What if that was me? Does my friend have to have a license to use the gun when it is a life or death situation, like someone threatening to hurt us if we don't give up money or a car? Or does it have to be me, the owner and licensed one? Thanks!! Been curious about this for a while.
    I would suggest you read RCW 9A.16. Pay particular attention to RCW 9A.16.110. as well as RCW 9.41.270 Better yet, just KNOW RCW 9.41 from start to finish...read it, read it again, and as many times as is needed to be able to recite it..OK?

    In the situation you discribed, I would not even worry about any "prohibitions", as in underage or stuff like that. True SD trumps all.

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    Regular Member TheGunMan's Avatar
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    My suggestion

    My suggestion is if you are going to carry then load the thing. If you need it you will not have time to chamber a round. Modern firearms are designed to be loaded with one n the chamber.
    You need to spend more time with it as to get used to it. In the time it takes you to get it out and chamber a round most people on here could empty a magazine in you. You dont have time.
    Practice with your gunand carry it correctly so if you need it, it wont get you killed. What type of gun is it? and model.

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    Regular Member TheGunMan's Avatar
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    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I would suggest you read RCW 9A.16. Pay particular attention to RCW 9A.16.110. as well as RCW 9.41.270 Better yet, just KNOW RCW 9.41 from start to finish...read it, read it again, and as many times as is needed to be able to recite it..OK?

    In the situation you discribed, I would not even worry about any "prohibitions", as in underage or stuff like that. True SD trumps all.

    Ditto,
    Well said

  10. #10
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    In the situation you discribed, I would not even worry about any "prohibitions", as in underage or stuff like that. True SD trumps all.
    As the old saying goes, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

  11. #11
    Regular Member aa1911's Avatar
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    There's a good reason not loading a round in the chamber is called a 'dead man's gun'. Keep one in the pipe, it is likely you will not have the time or ability to rack a round into the chamber.

    I would think that unless the other person is prohibited, they could certainly use the gun.

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I have my CPL. I keep my gun loaded wherever I take it. I do not carry it hot though, because it has no safety on it. If I am in my car driving, and my gun is right there, can my adult friend who is with me take it and use it if we end up in a situation where it needs to be used? Like if someone comes up to the car demanding I get out, or wants money. Last night, in the apartments right next to me, a 16 year old got shot in the stomach by a 29 year old homeless man, the teens were getting in their car about to leave when this homeless guy walked up to them demanding money and the car. The teen guys took the guy down, and one ended up shot, but he is going to be okay, thank god. What if that was me? Does my friend have to have a license to use the gun when it is a life or death situation, like someone threatening to hurt us if we don't give up money or a car? Or does it have to be me, the owner and licensed one? Thanks!! Been curious about this for a while.
    What weapon do you carry? I am assuming it is a pistol but which one? Springfield XD has two safeties on the back bone of the grip and trigger but no thumb safety, Glock has one on the trigger though personally I do not care for. There are numerous good gun that have trigger block in them to prevent an accidental discharge.

    If you are uncomfortable with carrying one in the pipe then I would recommend training classes as knowledge will remove the doubt and nervousness that seems to be plaguing you right now.

    As to letting your friend take your weapon if needed is fine as long as they are legal to possess a firearm but raises the issue of being proficient with a handgun and again training would help with that as well. I know a few women that carry and if someone tried to take their firearm to engage someone they likely get shot trying to take it! I would hope you take the position of confident in yourself to do what needs to be done.
    Last edited by BigDave; 12-08-2012 at 11:38 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    Carry it hot refers to a live round in the chamber, ready to fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    What do you mean, "carry it hot"?
    ~Samantha~

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    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    I have 2 guns, but mainly carry my S&W M&P .45 and it has no safety on it. It is the model with no thumb safety or any of that. I am not nervous or doubt myself, I am educated and know how to use it and I am aware of the safe handling in order to prevent an accident. I don't know what gave you the assumption I am not confident. My friend has training with firearms and is good with it, and I trust him to use it if he needs to.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    What weapon do you carry? I am assuming it is a pistol but which one? Springfield XD has two safeties on the back bone of the grip and trigger but no thumb safety, Glock has one on the trigger though personally I do not care for. There are numerous good gun that have trigger block in them to prevent an accidental discharge.

    If you are uncomfortable with carrying one in the pipe then I would recommend training classes as knowledge will remove the doubt and nervousness that seems to be plaguing you right now.

    As to letting your friend take your weapon if needed is fine as long as they are legal to possess a firearm but raises the issue of being proficient with a handgun and again training would help with that as well. I know a few women that carry and if someone tried to take their firearm to engage someone they likely get shot trying to take it! I would hope you take the position of confident in yourself to do what needs to be done.
    ~Samantha~

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    Carry it hot refers to a live round in the chamber, ready to fire.


    I know, I just hate slang like that. I mean, it really has no meaning. The gun is not "hot" until it's been fired. Just sitting there with a round in the chamber, it's ambient temperature.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    S&w m&p45
    Quote Originally Posted by thegunman View Post
    my suggestion is if you are going to carry then load the thing. If you need it you will not have time to chamber a round. Modern firearms are designed to be loaded with one n the chamber.
    You need to spend more time with it as to get used to it. In the time it takes you to get it out and chamber a round most people on here could empty a magazine in you. You dont have time.
    Practice with your gunand carry it correctly so if you need it, it wont get you killed. What type of gun is it? And model.
    ~Samantha~

  17. #17
    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    I have read all of those, I have them written down and look at them all the time. I am constantly trying to improve my knowledge. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I would suggest you read RCW 9A.16. Pay particular attention to RCW 9A.16.110. as well as RCW 9.41.270 Better yet, just KNOW RCW 9.41 from start to finish...read it, read it again, and as many times as is needed to be able to recite it..OK?

    In the situation you discribed, I would not even worry about any "prohibitions", as in underage or stuff like that. True SD trumps all.
    ~Samantha~

  18. #18
    Regular Member Samantha86's Avatar
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    Semi auto, I don't like revolvers. It is a S&W M&P45
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    BTW revolver or semi-auto?
    ~Samantha~

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I have 2 guns, but mainly carry my S&W M&P .45 and it has no safety on it. It is the model with no thumb safety or any of that. I am not nervous or doubt myself, I am educated and know how to use it and I am aware of the safe handling in order to prevent an accident. I don't know what gave you the assumption I am not confident. My friend has training with firearms and is good with it, and I trust him to use it if he needs to.
    Oh I don't know, your post! If you knew the laws then you would not have needed to ask if your friend could use your gun legally, or the idea a license gives you any knowledge or proficiency when it doesn't, if you knew about weapons and safe handling then again you would not have needed to ask if carrying one in the chamber was safe, it is if you follow the gun safety rules.

    Honestly, you sound like a young kid wanting others to think you know it all but don't.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Oh I don't know, your post! If you knew the laws then you would not have needed to ask if your friend could use your gun legally, or the idea a license gives you any knowledge or proficiency when it doesn't, if you knew about weapons and safe handling then again you would not have needed to ask if carrying one in the chamber was safe, it is if you follow the gun safety rules.

    Honestly, you sound like a young kid wanting others to think you know it all but don't.
    Cite where she asked this?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I have my CPL. I keep my gun loaded wherever I take it. I do not carry it hot though, because it has no safety on it. If I am in my car driving, and my gun is right there, can my adult friend who is with me take it and use it if we end up in a situation where it needs to be used? Like if someone comes up to the car demanding I get out, or wants money. Last night, in the apartments right next to me, a 16 year old got shot in the stomach by a 29 year old homeless man, the teens were getting in their car about to leave when this homeless guy walked up to them demanding money and the car. The teen guys took the guy down, and one ended up shot, but he is going to be okay, thank god. What if that was me? Does my friend have to have a license to use the gun when it is a life or death situation, like someone threatening to hurt us if we don't give up money or a car? Or does it have to be me, the owner and licensed one? Thanks!! Been curious about this for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Cite where she asked this?
    You no good read SVG?

    M&P from my 5 minute search is a DAO (double action only) and comes with a block to prevent accidental discharge if dropped so it is just as safe as a revolver of today with the cylinder full.
    All this says is she is new,young and in need of training or guidance with firearms, or both.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Question, any help would be appreciated

    I myself own a M&P. Carry it often during the water months. Winter months I tent to stick with my XD 40 Sub compact. Easier to conceal. Both don't have "manual" safety's for say. Haven't shot myself yet... Honestly, the gun is not going to go off unless you stick your finger inside the trigger guard or are not paying attention and allow some other foreign object in there. If you are practicing proper firearm precautions, you will be guarding the trigger being cognizant of what you allow in there.

    I have never owned a hand gun with animal safety an probably never will. Know your weapon. Know how it operates. And know how to use it. Plain and simple. Become comfortable with it to the point that manual safety isn't an issue.

    -NEMO-

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Oh I don't know, your post! If you knew the laws then you would not have needed to ask if your friend could use your gun legally, or the idea a license gives you any knowledge or proficiency when it doesn't, if you knew about weapons and safe handling then again you would not have needed to ask if carrying one in the chamber was safe, it is if you follow the gun safety rules.

    Honestly, you sound like a young kid wanting others to think you know it all but don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Cite where she asked this?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    You no good read SVG?
    I read just find. Where did she ask about it she made a statement on how she carries. Your rude reply to her wanting help was unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I have my CPL. I keep my gun loaded wherever I take it. I do not carry it hot though, because it has no safety on it. If I am in my car driving, and my gun is right there, can my adult friend who is with me take it and use it if we end up in a situation where it needs to be used? Like if someone comes up to the car demanding I get out, or wants money. Last night, in the apartments right next to me, a 16 year old got shot in the stomach by a 29 year old homeless man, the teens were getting in their car about to leave when this homeless guy walked up to them demanding money and the car. The teen guys took the guy down, and one ended up shot, but he is going to be okay, thank god. What if that was me? Does my friend have to have a license to use the gun when it is a life or death situation, like someone threatening to hurt us if we don't give up money or a car? Or does it have to be me, the owner and licensed one? Thanks!! Been curious about this for a while.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I read just find. Where did she ask about it she made a statement on how she carries. Your rude reply to her wanting help was unnecessary.
    I am not your Mommy or Daddy it is not my position to sugar coat it, I was not rude or nor was in unnecessary though it was something that needs to be said to those with less experience and knowledge so they can avoid many pitfalls ahead.

    Not carrying one round in the chamber or as she described carrying hot, clearly demonstrates someone that is not trusting of their ability or confidence in their firearm they are carrying. The only way to gain ability and confidence is to learn, gain information, training, practice.

    There is also those out there and I suspect she falls into this as well, new to the handling and carrying of firearms, claims proficiency and knowledge though lacking or with stories of my Uncle who fought in Vietnam taught me, or I Grandpa knows all there is to know about guns and he showed me, who has not heard these stories?
    While friends and family are willing to step up to the plate and I'll teach you when they may well lack the teaching skills to effectively complete the task.
    Firearms training is a great way to get professional instruction to shorten this learning time.

    SVG you go right ahead and sugar coat it, and say your poor babies it's okay and when it comes down to it and in an incident they are ill prepared, then you can say great job and pat yourself on your back.

    As I have said before you can take the information and do with it what you want, use it or not you are accountable for your actions.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  25. #25
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    Hot, you need to watch this video. This is why you carry one in the chamber, ready to rock-n-roll.

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