UnOfficial SB 59 Debate Thread

scot623 said:

Of course you'd hear the biggest uproar ever..there are over 340,000 CPL holders!! How many people open carry? 5000? 10,000? Without the masses, the voice of the open carrier is to small to have sway, we need CCers and gun owners in general to stand with us if we want 234d repealed or car carry without a CPL. Are those not the two most important issues to OCers?

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if there is only 5000 to 10000 OCers, I am ok with those numbers. What is to stop a CC organization from not helping OCers in the future? I dont see a down side for them to saying thanks for the endorsement on the bill but we just can't help you get an OC bill passed. not saying it would or will, but neither can anyone say it wont.

autosurgeon said:

Mike since you think Brian would have made a different decision as President. Perhaps you don't realize the president does not make these decisions by themselves. In most cases we include the entire leadership team in the discussion and then we have them vote with the board whether to support or not. This was not one mans decision.

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I knew that but it shouldn't be just the leadership on such a big decision it should have been put to the members. Instead of a small elite group behind closed doors. It's a very bad decision. As for Brian I blieve he would be a much better leader and would have made the correct decision to bring it to the members for a vote. It's not 1 or a group of leaders decision to make such a large strange decision it should be the people, the membership.

scot623 said:

Of course you'd hear the biggest uproar ever..there are over 340,000 CPL holders!! How many people open carry? 5000? 10,000? Without the masses, the voice of the open carrier is to small to have sway, we need CCers and gun owners in general to stand with us if we want 234d repealed or car carry without a CPL. Are those not the two most important issues to OCers?

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And you honestly believe by supporting a bill that criminalizes open carry for the first time ever and calling out open carry in a bill to ban open carry in specific places will actually earn favor for open carry by the gun community?????? I'm sorry I just don't follow the logic about this. It just doesn't add up! This is not just a minor thing it's specifically
Calling out open carry in a bill and criminalizing it! This will do the complete opposite in my opinion. It will bring more negative scrutiny against open carry. As it is it's hard to get support now that people can point to a law that criminalizes open carry they will point to it as a reason people do not want it. It will criminalize it for the first time ever! This is not a positive step this is the opposite and I feel it's extremely nieve and foolish to think otherwise. I can see some police now giving us a harder time because they have legal prescient law that shows open carry has been criminalized. Today they cannot point to any law that says open carry specifically is illegal. This had always been our greatest leverage against anti-gun folks. This will give people a reason to scrutinize open carry and how we carry a firearm. This is how anti-gun gun legislation in Florida caused concealed carriers having to worry about printing that is a worry about possibly facing arrest. In Texas they actually have a law criminalizing printing a firearm. It's horrible and I can't see this being anyone good for us open carriers!

mikestilly said:

I knew that but it shouldn't be just the leadership on such a big decision it should have been put to the members. Instead of a small elite group behind closed doors. It's a very bad decision. As for Brian I blieve he would be a much better leader and would have made the correct decision to bring it to the members for a vote. It's not 1 or a group of leaders decision to make such a large strange decision it should be the people, the membership.

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OK, I am on the slow side but even I get it, you don't like this bill, you don't like MOC, and you especially have an issue with the leadership at MOC.
So,
if you don't like the bill I would suggest that you start emailing the people who will actually be voting on it, not griping here.
if you do not like MOC don't be a member, simple.
If you do not like the leadership then join MOC and back people you would rather see in those positions or even run for one yourself. You have been posting the same thing, in multiple threads, for days now.

Raggs said:

OK, I am on the slow side but even I get it, you don't like this bill, you don't like MOC, and you especially have an issue with the leadership at MOC.
So,
if you don't like the bill I would suggest that you start emailing the people who will actually be voting on it, not griping here.
if you do not like MOC don't be a member, simple.
If you do not like the leadership then join MOC and back people you would rather see in those positions or even run for one yourself. You have been posting the same thing, in multiple threads, for days now.

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rags I have strong opinions on this whole thing and not everything I've said was the same. I believe people need to discuss this more and I'm flushing out as much on this lame logic by MoC as possible & I'm not the only one.

I haved emailed everyone voting and called. I doubt they even read most of the emails or calls but I did anyways. The same is the case for Our congressmen who've supported Obamas agenda.

I'm not a member of MOC and I know around 10+ at least member whom have also dropped their membership. I believe a change should be coming soon and I also am free to express my opinions of MOC. More people should be talking about it and I'll keep the discussion going even though Phil and others would like to censor it.

After thinking about SB59 for a long time, I am going to support it.
Most of what's in it won't have a big effect on me either way, but understand it may be a big help to others.

The argument of whether SB59 gets rid of OC "rights" is pointless, because you can't have a right to OC if you
have to ask the government for permission to even borrow a handgun.

Once we see the guts of HB5225 when it's passed, maybe we can start talking about carrying "rights", because as of
now, everything that deals with handguns (buying, borrowing, carrying, etc) is a privilege

mikestilly said:

MOC...the self made debocle of CADL.

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Perhaps you can explain how MOC was responsible for CADL v. MOC?

mikestilly said:

I'm not a member of MOC and I know around 10+ at least member whom have also dropped their membership.

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Dropped their membership? Since when? Every group has membership turnover...big deal.

NOT ONE, I repeat NOT ONE MEMBER HAS QUIT since we announced our position on SB-59.

griffin said:

Perhaps you can explain how MOC was responsible for CADL v. MOC?

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Epic thread derail coming...thread closure sure to follow

mikestilly said:

rags I have strong opinions on this whole thing and not everything I've said was the same. I believe people need to discuss this more and I'm flushing out as much on this lame logic by MoC as possible & I'm not the only one.

I haved emailed everyone voting and called. I doubt they even read most of the emails or calls but I did anyways. The same is the case for Our congressmen who've supported Obamas agenda.

I'm not a member of MOC and I know around 10+ at least member whom have also dropped their membership. I believe a change should be coming soon and I also am free to express my opinions of MOC. More people should be talking about it and I'll keep the discussion going even though Phil and others would like to censor it.

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Yes, we've all heard you. Now, give it a rest. Go home, have all your members call their congressman quick, before it passes and heralds in the end of the world as the Maya predicted.

scot623 said:

Epic thread derail coming...thread closure sure to follow

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Yup! Tactical nuke away- fox 1