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CADL Prepares for War...what will you do?

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
Thank you all very much for reaching out to your various library boards and getting back to us with your interest in contributing to and joining the "friend of the court" brief to encourage the Michigan Supreme Court to hear Capital Area District Library's forthcoming appeal. We have recieved some great feedback and wanted to answer a few questions that have been raised by multiple folks.

The first series of questions that a few people have asked is whether we know exactly how much the brief will cost, how much each library will need to contribute, and whether each library will be contributing an equal amount. As we've indicated to each of you, we understand how tight library budgets across the state are, and that is why we will be capping the fees for this engagement at $12,500. At this point, we do not know how many libraries in total will be joining this effort, and thus we cannot provide a final cost figure per library, However, as described below, we are not going to ask any library to contribute more than $1,500. With your help, we continue to reach out to and have had productive discussions with additional libraries and library cooperatives, and are hopeful that even more district libraries will agree to be part of this project, which would decrease the cost for each individual library. Certainly if you have personal connections with other district library directors or boards and would be kind enough to make an introduction to them for us, we would be happy to speak with them.

Given how many district libraries we have spoken with so far, we would ask that you receive authorization from your board to contribute up to $1,500 for this project. We are hopeful that even if your libraries authorize an expenditure of that amount, we will have enough support from enough libraries that it will not be necessary to use that entire allocation. Now, we understand that not all libraries will be able to contribute this amount, and that the libraries we've spoken with vary in terms of size, finances, and overall resources. But we do ask that you let us know what amount your library is able to contribute. When and if we are able to confirm that there is sufficient financial support for our effort, we will let everyone know and will begin our work.

The second question we have recieved is whether each library would need to have their name associated with the brief, or whether a library can support the brief through a contribution without attaching its name to the brief. The answer is that a library can make a contribution privately, without its name appearing on the brief.

We have spoken recently with former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court Clifford Taylor, our partner, and he is eager to begin work on this project if we are able to move forward.

We again appreciate your support and if you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to let us know.

-Scott


Scott A. Warheit | Attorney and Counselor at Law
Miller Canfield
840 W. Long Lake Road, Suite 200
Troy, Michigan 48098 (USA)
T +1.248.267.3259 | F +1.248.879.2001
warheit@millercanfield.com | View Profile + VCard
Subject: Friend of the Court Brief - CADL Appeal
Richard, Kay, Vickey, Paul, Pat, Bill, Kathleen, and David -

Thank you all for taking the time to speak with my colleague Matthew Leitman and myself over the past few days regarding the "guns in library" Michigan Court of Appeals decision. We appreciate Doug and Mary's help in reaching out to you, and we're glad to see that there is a consensus that working together to help convince the Michigan Supreme Court to consider an appeal in the Capital Area District Library case is in the interest of your library and your patrons.

As we discussed, the Capital Area District Library is likely to soon ask the Michigan Supreme Court to hear its appeal of the Court of Appeals' decision. And quite unlike the Michigan Court of Appeals, the Michigan Supreme Court has complete discretion over what cases it hears. So convincing the Michigan Supreme Court to consider this case is the immediate hurdle facing the CADL. It is at this stage where we believe that a consortium of district libraries could be of valuable help to the CADL through filing a "friend of the court" brief with the Michigan Supreme Court.

We were glad to hear when speaking with you that you believed this was an important and concerning issue worthy of your library's resources, and we would be happy to draft and file such a "friend of the court" brief on the consortium's behalf urging the Michigan Supreme Court to use its limited resources to hear the CADL's appeal. We feel that any brief we file would have added credibility and force with the Justices considering it because the former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court, Clifford Taylor, would be part of our team drafting and submitting the brief on the libraries' behalf.

What we would ask now is that you speak with your respective Boards and let us know to what extent your libraries would be willing to help fund this project. We understand the reality of library budgets (as a member of a library board myself, I know this first hand) which is why we've agreed to cap and reduce our fees for this important engagement and why we're reaching out to as many district libraries as possible from across the state. To that end, if you know of additional district libraries that you believe would be interested in helping fund this project, and wouldn't mind making an introduction for Matt or myself, we would be happy to speak with them so that the brief can have more force and help defray the costs for each individual library.

As for as timing of this brief, currently the CADL has a "motion for rehearing" pending with the Michigan Court of Appeals, asking it to reconsider its decision. That motion could be denied at any time, and the clock starts ticking on us to quickly draft and file our "friend of the court" brief as soon as the Court of Appeals hands down that ruling. If you could attempt to get back to us next week, we would greatly appreciate it. If the Michigan Court of Appeals rules on the CADL's motion in the meantime, we will certainly let you know. In addition, if you and/or your board members have any questions about this process, please do not hesitate to let us know.

Thanks again for your time and we look forward to hearing back from you on your respective Boards' ability and interest in helping to fund this project.

-Scott
 

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
"we understand how tight library budgets across the state are, and that is why we will be capping the fees for this engagement at $12,500. "

I wonder how many books this could by instead of trying to further their own opinion on how things should be...
 

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
"we understand how tight library budgets across the state are, and that is why we will be capping the fees for this engagement at $12,500. "

I wonder how many books this could by instead of trying to further their own opinion on how things should be...

That's just for the brief! If The SC accepts the case, their legal bill will run over $50k+ easy.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
Does anyone know what the current political make up of the SC is?

4-3 GOP majority, GOP retained control this past november. *steps up on soapbox* you should know this Al, we just voted on it a month ago, don't you remember all the Kelly/Johsnson/McCormick & Zahra/Markman/O'brien commercials? We as gun owners need to make sure we pay special attention to judicial elections because the anti's are. The cadl was hoping like hell that it flipped to Democrats last election. *gets off soapbox*
 
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Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
4-3 GOP majority, GOP retained control this past november. *steps up on soapbox* you should know this Al, we just voted on it a month ago, don't you remember all the Kelly/Johsnson/McCormick & Zahra/Markman/O'brien commercials? We as gun owners need to make sure we pay special attention to judicial elections because the anti's are. The cadl was hoping like hell that it flipped to Democrats last election. *gets off soapbox*
I always vote straight Republican ticket, but the judges are not always marked by party. And I didn't really see the results for state elections. They kind of got over shadowed by the national elections, like they usually do every four years. :)
 

Ezerharden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
723
Location
Erie, MI
As I understand it, Judges can't be party affiliated officially, however they may lean one way or the other in actions.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
I always vote straight Republican ticket, but the judges are not always marked by party. And I didn't really see the results for state elections. They kind of got over shadowed by the national elections, like they usually do every four years. :)

Michigan Supreme Court elections are non-partisan. The candidates are nominated by the parties, but are technically non-partisan so a straight ticket vote will not count towards them. Anti-gun forces have realized that passing gun control through legislatures is hard to do, the easiest way for them to accomplish this is through judicial activism(think aquilina). Think of the old phrase "when you can't bring something in the front door, you sneak it around the back". Now more than ever the control of the courts will be key to keeping the anti's from making any advances.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Be scared! Be very, very scared you simple believers in the constitution.

If the MI supreme court does take on this case & that's a big if. We need to contact the NRA (those who are still members) and those of us who aren't and let them know if they sit this one out they are DONE IN MI!

Many here sat the CADL battle out too. If you choose to do so this time around don't complain when every place in the state starts spawning side walk authorities, speed bump/paring lot authorities, parks authorities and so on that are outside and above preemption all with the ability to ban guns. :uhoh:
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
One should not be surprised by this action, IIRC the City of Ferndale tried this same action but the MI Supreme Court did not hear the case.

Interesting to watch how many Libraries join CADL....
 

wolverine1856

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
87
Location
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
One should not be surprised by this action, IIRC the City of Ferndale tried this same action but the MI Supreme Court did not hear the case.

Interesting to watch how many Libraries join CADL....

I can't believe the library's are allowed to use my tax dollars to wage this battle. I will remember this the next time a library milage comes up for vote.
 
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mirussell

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
22
Location
adrian
If the MI supreme court does take on this case & that's a big if. We need to contact the NRA (those who are still members) and those of us who aren't and let them know if they sit this one out they are DONE IN MI!

Many here sat the CADL battle out too. If you choose to do so this time around don't complain when every place in the state starts spawning side walk authorities, speed bump/paring lot authorities, parks authorities and so on that are outside and above preemption all with the ability to ban guns. :uhoh:

you really think the nra cares what you think after ll the bashing they get here because they support c.c more then open carry . Then you had some saying junk about them because they were for S.B.59. heck i might give some to the library. You don't support the way i happen to carry 90% of th time why should i support you
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
???

you really think the nra cares what you think after ll the bashing they get here because they support c.c more then open carry . Then you had some saying junk about them because they were for S.B.59. heck i might give some to the library. You don't support the way i happen to carry 90% of th time why should i support you

Do what you want it's your money (and our tax dollars). Who doesn't support the way you carry? The majority of folks who OC have no problem with CCers? I do both daily. Anyways do as you will. If the Library's are successful don't be shocked when your way of carry too is no longer allowed in the endless sea of AUTHORITIES that will spring up. :uhoh:
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
you really think the nra cares what you think after ll the bashing they get here because they support c.c more then open carry . Then you had some saying junk about them because they were for S.B.59. heck i might give some to the library. You don't support the way i happen to carry 90% of th time why should i support you

I take it you CC? Do you like the preemption of firearms in the state of Michigan? I know I do because it prevents me from having to look up each localities laws regarding carry. If CADL somehow gets their way (even if it goes to the Supreme Court I don't think they will) then you can very much say good bye to a solid state preemption, CC or OC.
 

HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
Gary Bender and his law firm must be grinning from ear to ear... they got these anti's worked up into a lather... and now time to cash in some more!!!! I think they probably are doing an end around with the finances too as it cost 70K for the first go around... then when he realized people were on to how much he was bilking the tax payers for he got wise and covered things up.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
What everyone should do is attend their library board meeting and express your displeasure at this attempt to waste even more money to curtail a person's right. But then again, according to some here, since you aren't actually on a board and have chosen to do other things, you shouldn't be complaining. Or, even better, if they can just ban OC and not touch CC, we should be OK with this.
 

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
What everyone should do is attend their library board meeting and express your displeasure at this attempt to waste even more money to curtail a person's right.
I was at the last CADL board meeting and spoke about the waste of nearly $80K in taxpayer money to argue against something that was lawful. So were some other people, none on MOC's board.

But then again, according to some here, since you aren't actually on a board and have chosen to do other things, you shouldn't be complaining.
Not sure to whom you are referring, but MOC's president has stated more than once that people shouldn't be silent, that if they oppose this bill they should act against it. Call their legislators, organize against it.

If I understand you correctly, Dr. Todd, you are being disingenuous. :(
 

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
I was at the last CADL board meeting and spoke about the waste of nearly $80K in taxpayer money to argue against something that was lawful. So were some other people, none on MOC's board.

Not sure to whom you are referring, but MOC's president has stated more than once that people shouldn't be silent, that if they oppose this bill they should act against it. Call their legislators, organize against it.

If I understand you correctly, Dr. Todd, you are being disingenuous. :(

But then again, according to some here, since you aren't actually on a board and have chosen to do other things, you shouldn't be complaining.

I am sure that if you go look through the locked threads you will find the if you aren't a member you have no say. I think you yourself have said it in fact.
 

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
But then again, according to some here, since you aren't actually on a board and have chosen to do other things, you shouldn't be complaining.
I don't believe anyone has said that. What people have said, though, is you shouldn't be complaining about the same thing over and over and over again when you have already been given an answer. For example, Mike Stillwater asked why MOC endorsed SB59. He was told. Then he asked why MOC endorsed SB59. He was told again. Then he asked why MOC endorsed SB59. He was told again.

As if the answer was going to change.

Do you know how many times MOC's reasoning was posted here even before he began asking his questions? Over and over and over again.

He did the same thing with the PFZ OC permission. He asked for someone to show him that in the bill. They did. Again he asked for someone to show him that in the bill. Someone else did. Then he asked for someone to show him that in the bill a third time. Again someone else did.

I think that's when his threads began to be closed because he was just trolling.

I am sure that if you go look through the locked threads you will find the if you aren't a member you have no say. I think you yourself have said it in fact.
I have never said this, but I think you probably mean that one has no say in MOC's official position. That part is true and obvious since it has already been published.
 
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