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Thread: 185 gr. JHP golden speers vs 230 gr. jhp winchester PD

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    185 gr. JHP golden speers vs 230 gr. jhp winchester PD

    Not exactly a gun question but in your experiences, is there much of a difference between modern 185 gr JHP and 230 gr JHP ammo? Obviously im referring to .45 caliber in case that wasn't clear.

    A guy gave me a stockpile of both types of ammo as he no longer owns a gun. Was curious what the forum readers have to say about each round.

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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    Penetration, heavier bullets tend to penetrate deeper.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL View Post
    Not exactly a gun question but in your experiences, is there much of a difference between modern 185 gr JHP and 230 gr JHP ammo? Obviously im referring to .45 caliber in case that wasn't clear.

    A guy gave me a stockpile of both types of ammo as he no longer owns a gun. Was curious what the forum readers have to say about each round.
    Do they go boom? Heavy rounds are better in cold weather. They not only penetrate better heavy clothing the weight encourages the powder to burn more fully. Save your lighter rounds for warmer weather.
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    Wichester load: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vzc...DE491&index=11

    Here is a 230 grain GoldDot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFfF...1DE491&index=9

    These are just tests, but they give a good idea of what a round can do.

    You can search YouTube and find a video for a 185 grain GD I'm sure, but I doubt the quality will be as good as this guy's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Do they go boom? Heavy rounds are better in cold weather. They not only penetrate better heavy clothing the weight encourages the powder to burn more fully. Save your lighter rounds for warmer weather.
    This, I prefer 230 grains, in JHP OR TMJ, over 185 most of the time. I would not care to chance having 185's penetrate well through heavy winter clothing, sweatshirts, etc. during colder weather.

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    I think you will fin the 185 will work just fine.

    good to be you to have people give you free ammo.
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    I am shocked - shocked, I tell you - that nobody has brought up the fact that Point of Impact (POI) will be different for the two loadings. Enough so that what might have been a "stopping" shot with one will, because it hits elsewhere than where you thought you were aiming, ends up only mightily annoying the recipient. The greater the distance to the target the more noticable this becomes.

    Go to the range and shoot from a supported position. See it for yourself.

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    Just my opinion, but iIdon't see any reason to use the lighter wt. bullets in the .45acp (1911 or others). The caveat to this is a bullseye gun set up for the 200 wadcutters for punching paper, and then you'll have a specific gun set up.

    The 230 does anything the .45acp was designed to do, and I doubt there is a nickles difference with realistic down range proformance between the 185 and 230. I tend to go with heavier is better in the big bore pistols. In the small bore guns (9mm, 38's and smaller) I tend to use the mid weight bullets.

    I tend to work up a good all around load for each of my guns and stick with it. It keeps it simple.

    YMMV

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    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    recoil differs between those two loads. I also belive the 45acp was designed for 230gr loads just it was designed for 5 inch barrels. 185gr is also faster than 230gr.
    Last edited by crackersillo; 12-31-2012 at 01:41 AM.

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    What the heck is a 185 golden speer? Is that a Speer Gold Dot?

    If so, I'm given to understand that Speer Gold Dots are the most common ammo carried by law enforcement. And, are pretty reliable at mushrooming. Expansion to .70" comes to mind for some reason.

    I'm thinking they made them lighter partly because they weigh less since there is a cavity for the hollow point. And, so they can boost the velocity to get the hollow point to mushroom reliably.

    Based on what I remember from reading about them, I wouldn't mind using them. For carry. I understand a steady diet of +P ammo can have a deleterious effect on some guns.
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    Remington's Golden Saber would be my guess.

    I've tried them all; they all work fine. I carry 230-grain FMJ. It works fine, too!

    As mentioned, where it hits relative to point-of-aim is worth knowing, but while it's nice to know, also see what the difference is at 3 yards, the typical gunfight distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    recoil differs between those two loads. I also belive the 45acp was designed for 230gr loads just it was designed for 5 inch barrels. 185gr is also faster than 230gr.
    Not to contradict. Just bringing up a bit of historical trivia. The .45 acp was originally 200gr. I recently read this in a gunzine article. The article said the bullet weight was changed to 230 gr sometime around WW1.

    Wikipedia confirms the original 200 gr loading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Do they go boom? Heavy rounds are better in cold weather. They not only penetrate better heavy clothing the weight encourages the powder to burn more fully. Save your lighter rounds for warmer weather.
    I have to respectively disagree, numerous tests have shown that heavy clothing has very little to do with overall penetration. However where heavy clothing does create a problem is with clogging the hollow points and causing them to not expand properly, or at all. Heavier grain bullets already expand less then lighter grain bullets. Heavy grain Winchester pdx1's already have a history of failing to expand (I'm not saying they all do, but it seems to happen more than other rounds).

    Given the scenario of needing to stop an attacker wearing heavy winter clothing, if I could choose which ammo i had loaded at that time, I would opt for something like Hornady Critical Defense, which is of course a lighter faster bullet with a polymer tip to help prevent clogging and ensure adequate expansion.

    That having been said, Hornady Critical Duty is an excellent compromise if you still prefer a heavier bullet: its 220gr, +P to keep velocity up, and features the polymer tip.

    I would not want to carry the Winchester pdx1 in cold weather.

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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twpetry View Post
    I have to respectively disagree, numerous tests have shown that heavy clothing has very little to do with overall penetration. However where heavy clothing does create a problem is with clogging the hollow points and causing them to not expand properly, or at all. Heavier grain bullets already expand less then lighter grain bullets. Heavy grain Winchester pdx1's already have a history of failing to expand (I'm not saying they all do, but it seems to happen more than other rounds).

    Given the scenario of needing to stop an attacker wearing heavy winter clothing, if I could choose which ammo i had loaded at that time, I would opt for something like Hornady Critical Defense, which is of course a lighter faster bullet with a polymer tip to help prevent clogging and ensure adequate expansion.

    That having been said, Hornady Critical Duty is an excellent compromise if you still prefer a heavier bullet: its 220gr, +P to keep velocity up, and features the polymer tip.

    I would not want to carry the Winchester pdx1 in cold weather.
    Do you have a cite for your information on the PDX1 ammo?
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    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Not to contradict. Just bringing up a bit of historical trivia. The .45 acp was originally 200gr. I recently read this in a gunzine article. The article said the bullet weight was changed to 230 gr sometime around WW1.

    Wikipedia confirms the original 200 gr loading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP


    thank you for the knowledge.

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