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Thread: Can This Tragedy Be Prevented In Wisconsin?

  1. #1
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    Can This Tragedy Be Prevented In Wisconsin?

    Yes tragedies like this can be prevented here in our state, if gunowner follows common sense ( Lacking in today's culture) and proper training. I have to block out, when my brain creates pictures, when I read articles like these: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/trag...penn-gun-shop/

    Many of you know my story when my wifey refused to have my handgun at home. We have 3 kids and she, being born in America has read about many gun related accidents. Now, I check my 357 revolver twice when I unload and have had to leave it at my mom's. or hide my gun and take the ammo away. Gabe Gutenberger and his late wife Stephanie taught me good gun safety. I remember him saying that with a handgun, one needs to eject the lone bullet from the gun. They both showed me different ways to lock the gun. On Saturday, I bought a trigger lock, the one thing my wife requested, if I wanted to leave the gun at home. It is still hid it. Next item will be a gun safe. This morning I checked my cylinder again: Empty.

    I could go on... I am thankful that so far I have not done anything stupid. I hope that we on this blog contunially remind ourselves tyo play it safe and follow the things we have learnt and by experience to keep incidents like the above from happening. The sad case is that the dad who is broken may go to jail. Yes accidents do happen. Let us do all to prevent them. a handgun is a part of my life now.

  2. #2
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    Following the basic safety rules would have prevented it.

    It did not happen at home.

    One has to train and gun proof your children. I was rasied with easy axcess to many guns we never handled them with out permisson there were 8 of us.

    We were taught early and often about firearms. We were hunting by are selfs by the time we were 8yoa. I shot my frist grouse with a 20ga 870 when I was 9 just me and the dog.

    If we wanted to look at a gun just ask and we were shown it how to check if it was loaded and never ever point it at another person.

    That one thing I had to over come after I became a LEO If was hard to get use to pointing loaded ready to use firearms at people. That went against all my childhood training.

    My own children were shown firearms from a fairly early age as soon as they could walk. They were given toy guns very early and explained the differants.

    From the time they were 5 on they shot guns on a regular basics. I made it a point to take them out shooting several times a month. Not hard when one can walk out the front and back doors and shoot. They recived a bb gun at age 5 and a 22 at 12.

    By the time they were 8 or 10 they could pick up many differant kinds of rifles, shotguns, handguns and make sure that they were unloaded or loaded.

    When they turned 18 they were given a semi auto 9mm and a double action revolver for turning into upstanding citizens.

    They now both own many guns and have CCW permits

    Train early and often.
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  3. #3
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    There are no trigger locks used in my house and all the guns not in the safe are loaded. Every one who comes to my place know that my guns are loaded.

    When strange untrained children come they are locked up. Oh not the children the guns.

    Some times it would be easier to lock the children up.
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    My oldest boy is 31, when I took him to hunters safety at the age of 11 some of the adults were handed guns. He remembers that I was the only adult to check it for being loaded. I don't remember but he does. He doesn't own a gun @ this time but I bet he'd clear one if you handed him one.
    On a a side note we lost a nephew just a year ago to a hunting accident and it still cut deep. After that My son started a non-prof. Hope this doesn't get me trouble with the mods but please visit TheSafestGun.org

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Your question doesn't make sense. Not sure why you thought to question whether or not this could be prevented in the state of Wisconsin. This is not an issue related to geographical boundaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    Your question doesn't make sense. Not sure why you thought to question whether or not this could be prevented in the state of Wisconsin. This is not an issue related to geographical boundaries.
    I understand that this is not an issue related to boundries. If the above senario was repetitive enough, law enforcement would lobby for some kooky law to prevent irresponsible parents or if the baby is thrown out with the bathwater, subject all gunowners to something prohibitiveour that we on this blog would not like. the system is constantly looking for ways to do just that, and I don't want to have to move to another state just to avoid the kooky law. I just have a concern. The next Admin may not be the one we like and may just do the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Following the basic safety rules would have prevented it.

    It did not happen at home.

    One has to train and gun proof your children. I was rasied with easy axcess to many guns we never handled them with out permisson there were 8 of us.

    We were taught early and often about firearms. We were hunting by are selfs by the time we were 8yoa. I shot my frist grouse with a 20ga 870 when I was 9 just me and the dog.

    If we wanted to look at a gun just ask and we were shown it how to check if it was loaded and never ever point it at another person.

    That one thing I had to over come after I became a LEO If was hard to get use to pointing loaded ready to use firearms at people. That went against all my childhood training.

    My own children were shown firearms from a fairly early age as soon as they could walk. They were given toy guns very early and explained the differants.

    From the time they were 5 on they shot guns on a regular basics. I made it a point to take them out shooting several times a month. Not hard when one can walk out the front and back doors and shoot. They recived a bb gun at age 5 and a 22 at 12.

    By the time they were 8 or 10 they could pick up many differant kinds of rifles, shotguns, handguns and make sure that they were unloaded or loaded.

    When they turned 18 they were given a semi auto 9mm and a double action revolver for turning into upstanding citizens.

    They now both own many guns and have CCW permits

    Train early and often.
    I could echo the same thing except I'm not an LEO.

    I too grew up in Wisconsin and all the hunting it offers. Take the mystery out of it and teach the child early and often they will respect the responsibility that owning a firearm entails. I was exposed to and handled rifles and shot guns at an early age. My Dad never locked guns up and we know right where they were (6 of us). I was cleaning my guns as early as 11 or 12 and blued my first shotgun at 16 or 15.

    Training, training, training. Just as you teach your child to drive teach them to respect firearms. I have 6 kids of my own now and they all have shot my hand guns. They prefer the .22 or .410.

    I will not condem this man because I wasn't there but you are right it is a tragedy but tragedies are a part of life, all we can do is learn from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Following the basic safety rules would have prevented it.

    It did not happen at home.

    One has to train and gun proof your children. I was rasied with easy axcess to many guns we never handled them with out permisson there were 8 of us.

    We were taught early and often about firearms. We were hunting by are selfs by the time we were 8yoa. I shot my frist grouse with a 20ga 870 when I was 9 just me and the dog.

    If we wanted to look at a gun just ask and we were shown it how to check if it was loaded and never ever point it at another person.

    That one thing I had to over come after I became a LEO If was hard to get use to pointing loaded ready to use firearms at people. That went against all my childhood training.

    My own children were shown firearms from a fairly early age as soon as they could walk. They were given toy guns very early and explained the differants.

    From the time they were 5 on they shot guns on a regular basics. I made it a point to take them out shooting several times a month. Not hard when one can walk out the front and back doors and shoot. They recived a bb gun at age 5 and a 22 at 12.

    By the time they were 8 or 10 they could pick up many differant kinds of rifles, shotguns, handguns and make sure that they were unloaded or loaded.

    When they turned 18 they were given a semi auto 9mm and a double action revolver for turning into upstanding citizens.

    They now both own many guns and have CCW permits

    Train early and often.
    You are very fortunate Firearms. I was born in another part of the world and never was able to handle real guns. But you are right, it was the toy guns and we used to imitate all the westerns we saw in theaters. I must have gotten used to handeling guns. Even when my dad was posted in Egypt in the 60s, we played with cap guns, the metal ones. I know that toy guns today look like real ones in many cases. I feel for this dad. Did he have guns at home and never aquired a lisense, or had training? I don't know, but I get very concerned when these kinds of things happen too frequently. We have a commander in chief who is not friendly towards our rights. He could do something. The next Wi governor with the same mentality could think of something. Even toy guns are frowned upon today. And then there are those stupid enought to use the toy guns and get killed.
    Last edited by Law abider; 12-10-2012 at 05:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Can This Tragedy Be Prevented In Wisconsin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    ...If the above senario was repetitive enough, law enforcement would lobby for some kooky law...

    ...I just have a concern.
    So what do you propose?

  10. #10
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    The antis are and have lobbyed for many differant gun laws.

    It is not about facts for them it is about control, people control they can not push their agenda on a armed population as fast.

    As long as they are the only ones with guns or the people they appoint are then they would be happy.

    Other then that no one for any reason should have one , you know if for the children I tell you(barf)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Following the basic safety rules would have prevented it.

    It did not happen at home.

    One has to train and gun proof your children. I was rasied with easy axcess to many guns we never handled them with out permisson there were 8 of us.

    We were taught early and often about firearms. We were hunting by are selfs by the time we were 8yoa. I shot my frist grouse with a 20ga 870 when I was 9 just me and the dog.

    If we wanted to look at a gun just ask and we were shown it how to check if it was loaded and never ever point it at another person.

    That one thing I had to over come after I became a LEO If was hard to get use to pointing loaded ready to use firearms at people. That went against all my childhood training.

    My own children were shown firearms from a fairly early age as soon as they could walk. They were given toy guns very early and explained the differants.

    From the time they were 5 on they shot guns on a regular basics. I made it a point to take them out shooting several times a month. Not hard when one can walk out the front and back doors and shoot. They recived a bb gun at age 5 and a 22 at 12.

    By the time they were 8 or 10 they could pick up many differant kinds of rifles, shotguns, handguns and make sure that they were unloaded or loaded.

    When they turned 18 they were given a semi auto 9mm and a double action revolver for turning into upstanding citizens.

    They now both own many guns and have CCW permits

    Train early and often.
    Like you FI, my father also believed in teaching myself and siblings the proper and safe use of a weapon. My father also was a very strong believer in home defense, and as such had weapons staged around the house. And every saturday morning (rain or shine) I was out back going through a brick of 22 ammo. As a result I developed a very healthy respect for firearms. We knew what weapons could do, and treated them as weapons and NOT as toys. We had our toy guns and played the typical "gun" games with other kids without any issues. I passed this message on to my children, and I see them passing this safe aspect on to their children. I've talked to others and question them when they tell me that they don't let their children access to the firearms in their homes --- and tell them they're making a big mistake and they need to change their outlook on this subject to avoid issues that arise with their type of mentality.

    JJC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    So what do you propose?
    Sorry Trip20 I was down with the real influenza. Firearms and others have proposed a major thing: proper training. However I suppose, locking up a gun when not in use may be bad bec if an intruder is in your home, you may not be able to retreive your gun or you may be delayed trying to undo the trigger lock. I don't know how we can prevent tragedies from happening, but one thing is for sure there are people out there who wish to sanitize society so that nothing bad happens, aka extreme gun control. Any ideas Trip20?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Sorry Trip20 I was down with the real influenza. Firearms and others have proposed a major thing: proper training. However I suppose, locking up a gun when not in use may be bad bec if an intruder is in your home, you may not be able to retreive your gun or you may be delayed trying to undo the trigger lock. I don't know how we can prevent tragedies from happening, but one thing is for sure there are people out there who wish to sanitize society so that nothing bad happens, aka extreme gun control. Any ideas Trip20?
    I hope you're feeling better.

    In light of the recent CT incident my ideas are a bit cynical (or realistic as far as I'm concerned).

    I believe the big farce in all this is to start with the premise that there's something we can do as a community or nation to stop bad things from happening such as in your original article (an example of pure negligence), or even more recent with the CT shootings (an example of specific intent & evil).

    With regard to situations involving negligence... we can require this or that. Require training, sure. Legislate requirements regarding storage in the home. Further legislate transportation requirements. We can legislate the hell out of it if we really want to. But at the end of the day it boils down to an individual(s) unwavering sense of responsibility that prevents tragedy. You can't legislate human error or stupidity in to submission. Negligence will always surface. It does with firearms just as it does with automobiles (I realize one is a Right and the latter is not).

    For the intentional/evil side of things... There is nothing stopping, for example, one of my co-workers from going out to his/her vehicle, grabbing a firearm and playing target practice with his/her fellow workers. No gun control law, no "company policy", no ban on violent video games, no forced religion in schools, no beefed up mental health resources…not even an armed guard on duty. None of that can stop the determination of an evil person with mediocre intelligence. A gas can and a lighter can cause as much havoc and devastation as a firearm with a little planning.

    My opinion... my bottom line: One's morality, conscience, fear of consequences, sense of responsibility and other similar factors are all that stop people from making grave mistakes or carrying out evil actions. These attributes come from within. They cannot be controlled or otherwise forced upon an individual through "legislative intent" or any other such myth. Thankfully, most people walk around with enough of these attributes to be steadfast in our responsibilities, and to deal with our life problems in stride.

  14. #14
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    Can this tragedy be avoided in Wisconsin? yes, by doing away with gun free slaughter zones. a criminal, or nut job might think twice if they realize that law abiding citizens may be milling about in the parkinglot, or in the school for one reason or another. then again, they can have homeland security set up those body scanners at every school, and every entrance or exit, as we know that works so well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    I hope you're feeling better.

    In light of the recent CT incident my ideas are a bit cynical (or realistic as far as I'm concerned).

    I believe the big farce in all this is to start with the premise that there's something we can do as a community or nation to stop bad things from happening such as in your original article (an example of pure negligence), or even more recent with the CT shootings (an example of specific intent & evil).

    With regard to situations involving negligence... we can require this or that. Require training, sure. Legislate requirements regarding storage in the home. Further legislate transportation requirements. We can legislate the hell out of it if we really want to. But at the end of the day it boils down to an individual(s) unwavering sense of responsibility that prevents tragedy. You can't legislate human error or stupidity in to submission. Negligence will always surface. It does with firearms just as it does with automobiles (I realize one is a Right and the latter is not).

    For the intentional/evil side of things... There is nothing stopping, for example, one of my co-workers from going out to his/her vehicle, grabbing a firearm and playing target practice with his/her fellow workers. No gun control law, no "company policy", no ban on violent video games, no forced religion in schools, no beefed up mental health resources…not even an armed guard on duty. None of that can stop the determination of an evil person with mediocre intelligence. A gas can and a lighter can cause as much havoc and devastation as a firearm with a little planning.

    My opinion... my bottom line: One's morality, conscience, fear of consequences, sense of responsibility and other similar factors are all that stop people from making grave mistakes or carrying out evil actions. These attributes come from within. They cannot be controlled or otherwise forced upon an individual through "legislative intent" or any other such myth. Thankfully, most people walk around with enough of these attributes to be steadfast in our responsibilities, and to deal with our life problems in stride.

    +1
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