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Thread: OC with IWB holster

  1. #1
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    OC with IWB holster

    I recently purchased a Galco IWB holster for my 1911.
    I cannot apply for my CCDW until January when I turn 21.
    If I use this holster with my shirt tucked in behind it with the hammer and grip exposed am I in danger of that being concealed? Personally I find this a lot more practical than a large hip holster like my Blackhawk I use at the range.
    I did some research throughout the site but found nothing specific to KY.
    Attached is a photo showing what I'm talking about


    Thanks
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  2. #2
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    This is one of those gray areas not (really) specified one way or the other. I would think that it wouldn't be hard to convince a jury that you did nothing wrong if you carry like that, so I say go for it.

    It would be best to only carry in an IWB holster if you have a CDWL, but I do think it is still OC.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    This is one of those gray areas not (really) specified one way or the other. I would think that it wouldn't be hard to convince a jury that you did nothing wrong if you carry like that, so I say go for it.

    It would be best to only carry in an IWB holster if you have a CDWL, but I do think it is still OC.
    You're right. This question has been ask several times and it has always been a gray area. I can't find a recent case (or case at all) about an arrest for wearing like this. I do remember a story from years ago in Bath Co where a Trooper was testifying about a guy that he had charged for CC. The judge ask the Trooper how he knew that the man had a gun. The Trooper answered "because I saw it". The judge then said "well, it wasn't concealed then" and proceeded to dismiss the case. Of course this was back in the good old days.
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    Can I ask you why this is more practical?

    Why would you place a weapon in the one place you can't actively look or reach to defend?* It's in the middle of your back. You're not going to be able to actively cover or defend that weapon.**

    IMO use a Retention holster and keep it on your side. I'm (assuming) that it would only make more alarm as you have it tucked IWB and Openly Carrying it, someone may mistake this as a guy with a gun trying to rob a store, moreso than someone Openly Carrying on his hip***. That's the more common place for "Criminals" to keep their guns.*4 Look, I get it, Open Carry website, do what you want.*5 I'm only offering my opinion on the matter, and us as people who Open Carry know what it is, but you need to think about the limited intelligence on Open Carrying in the eye of the public.

    IMO IWB serves only one purpose and that is to conceal.
    *: Judging by the OP's picture, I'm pretty sure he can reach behind himself and grab the pistol readily and easily. Hell, I can too, and I've OC'd that way many times myself. The only way someone isn't going to be able to reach behind themselves, is if they are of poor shape, and weigh hundreds of pounds more than they rightfully should. So there goes your reaching around theory out the window.

    **: Oh? and how do you know if the OP is going to be able to defend the firearm? and isn't it poor taste to advise someone to cover their weapon when they don't have a CCDW license? So by your line of thought on that bit, I shouldn't carry my revolver, or SA/DA in my drop-leg holster because I have to reach my arm down a few inches past where my hand usually rests in a normal position, just to grab my pistol, because its not readily available on my hip, right?

    ***: Really? You do enjoy making wild judgements and using hidden meaning within your words to make someone afraid to do something that you don't particularly like, don't you? Here is a helpful quote, in case you haven't thought to look it up, from Holland v Commonwealth; " If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one may question the wearer’s right so to do;" The last part, extends to you as well as me, everyone else, the gov't LEO/LEA's, and even the most simple of minded folks.

    *4: See above.

    *5: Darn skippy, don't be telling someone who they should, or should not carry, the OP asked a simple question, and you got on the attack wagon to nowheres-ville with your stern words of what is right and wrong, even within the pretenses of your self-serving "IMO" phrases, your wording suggests an authoritative stance, and in a fashion I've only ever heard of from, and by, Law Enforcement Officers. And taking from other posts you've made in other places, I seriously have began to question your motives on this forum.

    And for the last bit; Please, do tell all of us more about what he supposedly know and think, so you can generalize and formulate a condescending opinion to someone based on how you think we all feel on something.
    --------------------

    @OP;

    You're good bro, that form of carrying isn't illegal, it's in plain and open view as long as you make sure your shirt or jacket doesn't cover it up. I carry that way out of comfort when I don't feel like carrying in a drop-leg or hip style, and have done so at numerous places, with and without LEO's looking or around and have not had any problems with it at all. That is a nice 1911 though, mind if I ask the brand and where you got it?
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    Well that escalated quickly haha
    Thanks for backing me up while I was away for the day Drake.
    That is my Taurus PT1911 AL, I absolutely love it and trust it with my life every day. The aluminum lower receiver makes it lighter than a lot of other 1911s. I've put about 1000 rounds through it with no jams yet. (fingers crossed)
    And to Devin- I believe the term is situational awareness. No one ever gets close enough to my backside whether I'm armed or not. That's purely out of habit. Also with the correct adjustment on any quality IWB retention holster it is nearly impossible to un-holster the sidearm without the proper angle of force, it took me a few days of practicing unloaded to get it right without looking like a total dummy. Carrying IWB is more practical for my day to day activities because I don't have a fullsize 1911 getting caught on and bumping into everything in sight(I deliver furniture on the side during the day)

    I guess I'm going to keep on carrying in this fashion until March when I should have my CCDW and be fully legal to carry concealed.

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    I don't see a problem with OCing with an IWB holster as long as it is easily identifiable as a firearm. I would suggest moving it to your strong-side hip instead of the small of your back. I would also make sure your shirt is properly tucked every chance you get so you avoid accidental concealment. In the picture your shirt is bunched up and looks like it could cover a good portion of your firearm if you were in the right posistion.

    Carrying that way is your choice, but I would hate to see someone arrested when they had no intention of violating a statute.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Re: OC with IWB holster

    Just so you can be 100% sure, get an OWB holster with at least level 2 retention. Oh, and practice, practice, practice your draw.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Carried in a Galco Summer Comfort IWB pre-CCDW.

    Not an attorney here, nor do I advocate ANYONE doing as I have done. Unless it's specfically noted as illegal per KRS, you'd have to make up your own mind as to IF you wish to attempt to carry in the stated fashion.

    I have carried my SIG in many different holsters and rigs over the years, one of those has been a Galco IWB Summer Comfort holster! I started utilizing this particular IWB holster about 4 or 5 moths prior to taking my CCDW class or getting my CCDW license. As I stated above, I do not advocate doing this particularly because of the fact that it COULD most definitely be considered a "gray area" issue but in all my months of carrying in this holster, I never once encountered any issues at all.

    With all that being said, I do feel the need to address one issue in reference to this specific form of carry and that's the fact of using it as a SOB (Smal Of the Back) holster. This use of location for this holster in an OC form of carry is dangerous to say the least on many different levels ranging from facts already stated to the fact that in an actual active shooter situation, he would at a seriously major disadvantage and the fact that a BG would have him with his strong hand already twist up behind his back and all the BG has to do is keep a very moderate amount of pressure applied to the wrist to nullify the carrier's benefit of even carrying his weapon and even beyond those facts are the chances that a BG could commit a "gun grab" or even take control of an active weapon. This position of carry is risky at best even when the carrier is very skillfully trained and carrying concealed which is the only suggested way to carry SOB.
    Last edited by neuroblades; 12-20-2012 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Spelling.
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    Re: OC with IWB holster

    In my opinion, only people with concealed carry permits should carry in a visible IWB holster. That's because whether an officer considers it concealed or not, you're covered by your permit if he determines it to be concealed.

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  10. #10
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    In my opinion, only people with concealed carry permits should carry in a visible IWB holster. That's because whether an officer considers it concealed or not, you're covered by your permit if he determines it to be concealed.

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    That is so, so wrong on so many levels. A firearm carried in any position front or back or side, that is easily seen, is openly carried. No one may question that. It is not concealed. If a LEO is stupid enough to call it concealed, then he deserves their badge ripped off, and sued personally for being a dumbarse or relevant charges.

    I don't know about you other people, but I keep my shirt tucked in whether or not I am carrying, just keep your shirt tucked in and you are fine.

    And encouraging him to get a CCDW just to carry "just in case" a cop thinks something is concealed is petty, and gah! Go back and read the laws and cases and AGO's clearly and slowly. He doesn't need a CCDW to carry in any position so long as it's visible from the position he carries it. We're not made of thin air, if carried on the left hip, it has to be visible from the left side, same with the back, front, and leg, and head if you want.

    *Goes to grab more coffee*
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    In my opinion, only people with concealed carry permits should carry in a visible IWB holster. That's because whether an officer considers it concealed or not, you're covered by your permit if he determines it to be concealed.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    The KY Supreme Court stated in Holland v. Commonwealth that no one can question our right to carry a firearm as long as it is carried outside the "shirt or jacket" in plain view. They didn't say it had to be carried outside of the pants as well, so it would be hard to convict someone for CC carrying like he is suggesting.

    Sure he could be arrested, but we all run that risk if we OC a firearm.

    I would change the posistion of carry however, and place it on his strong side.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Re: OC with IWB holster

    I don't know know if any other states are as specific as Arizona is on the definition of OC. There, the law states that it must be carried in a belt holster and that the only a portion of the holster needs to be visible for it not to be considered concealed. Mexican carry in Arizona (even if most of the gun is visible) is considered concealed; however since Arizona now allows CC without a permit, you can no longer be arrested for carrying this way without a permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I don't know know if any other states are as specific as Arizona is on the definition of OC. There, the law states that it must be carried in a belt holster and that the only a portion of the holster needs to be visible for it not to be considered concealed. Mexican carry in Arizona (even if most of the gun is visible) is considered concealed; however since Arizona now allows CC without a permit, you can no longer be arrested for carrying this way without a permit.

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    Kentucky has NO laws on how to openly carry or open carry in general.

    The only laws we have concern concealed carry.

    We do have one statute that states firearms carried openly are prohibited from K-12 school buildings, but that is the ONLY one.

    We have ONE administrative regulation that states OC firearms cannot be taken inside state fair ground buildings, but it is unconstitutional and will be challenged eventually or the General Assembly will take action to end the ban. We can carry in our State Capitol Building and every other government office (except the Court of Justice courthouses, and not because of a statutory ban) yet the fair board believes they can prohibit firearms at the State Fair Grounds.

    Our Constitution is our only "law" on open carry, and Holland v. Commonwealth reinforces our RKBA.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-20-2012 at 11:37 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Since this photo was taken I have purchased a Bersa bp9cc to carry everyday.
    The reason for the SOB carry was comfort, My 1911 has a 5" barrel. There are very few ways to carry it IWB without putting unneeded pressure on your back. I had practiced for hours on my draw and even with a coworker who is a recently retired MP for a "gun grab" situation. My ducks were in about as straight of a row as I could have had them.
    I have since moved the Bersa to 4 o'clock because of its smaller barrel and I definitely see the pros to carrying closer to your strong side.
    That being said.. I'll still get out the mac daddy every now and then and carry it SOB.

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    I will OC my snubnose revolver SOB most of the time. I have had zero issues to date. I say go for whats practical and comfortable!

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    Williams v. Comm of KY 1896 " Meaning of 'conceal' is to hide, secrete, screen, and cover, therefore a person who carries a pistol in such a manner that a person in front of him can see it does not carry it concealed."
    Last edited by ArmyOC; 01-12-2013 at 07:13 PM.

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    @Army: Do you have a link to that case? I've searched and couldn't find anything.

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