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12/11/2012 Federal Court strikes down Illinois ban on CCW!!!

rushcreek2

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
This is great news not only for residents of Illinois but residents of all of the states - although once again we witness the federal government "enforcing" its INTERPRETATION of the 2nd Amendment onto a state government.

I get a bit uncomfortable seeing the federal courts continually referring back to English law, custom, and practice when attempting to map out the parameters of the RTKBA as it has been historically understood and recognized by the people of these United States. This distinction is especially significant given recent suppression of the free exercise of that right by the British people. It was an interesting review of English history in the Heller decision, but the courts should henceforth confine their research to the American colonial, and constitutional republican experience regarding OUR RTKBA.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
rushcreek2 said:
This is great news not only for residents of Illinois but residents of all of the states - although once again we witness the federal government "enforcing" its INTERPRETATION of the 2nd Amendment onto a state government.

I get a bit uncomfortable seeing the federal courts continually referring back to English law, custom, and practice when attempting to map out the parameters of the RTKBA as it has been historically understood and recognized by the people of these United States. This distinction is especially significant given recent suppression of the free exercise of that right by the British people. It was an interesting review of English history in the Heller decision, but the courts should henceforth confine their research to the American colonial, and constitutional republican experience regarding OUR RTKBA.
Click to expand...

Case law of the period in which our country was founded, cannot be considered w/o including those decisions that occurred prior. The latter is dependent on the former. It is the basis, the very foundation, of our system of laws.
 
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
And now we see how bad it's going to be

Never mind - I read the wrong bill.

stay safe.
 
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Superlite27

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
Previously, I've been advocating Illinoisians to urge their legislators to hold out, not pass legislation, and wait for Constitutional Carry to arrive in 180 days.

However, I'm going to modify my previous belief and concede that CCW legislation needs to be enacted for several reasons.

1) Reciprocity.
2) Confusion regarding "Home rule" status.

If there is no CCW permit legislation, no permit is needed, therefore, no "permission slip" or I.D. card. How will Illinoisians carry in other states that require them? There needs to be implimentation of a permit system to allow for residents to have documentation in order to carry elsewhere other than Illinois.

There seems to be some confusion regarding the legality of unrestricted carry in home rule cities. While municipalities are unable to define felonies, places like Chicago may still pass local ordinances against any type of carry, and toss people in the slammer for the misdemeanor of carrying a gun. Then, you can sit in Cook County jail for a year while the courts argue for your release, attempt to invalidate unconstitutional laws by municipalities, and all the legal wrangling Chicago suburbs will ALMOST DEFINITELY carry on with regardless of the recent 7th CCOA ruling.

I have come to the conclusion that it would be better to simply pre-empt all the B.S. and pass a CCW permit system with as few "restrictions" (read: Hopefully NONE) as possible. At minimum:

1) Full state pre-emption (discard any namby-pamby Chicago B.S.)
2) MANDATORY SHALL ISSUE (discard any local sheriff B.S.)
3) No training requirement
4) Inconsequential issue fee (or none at all)
5) Full National Reciprocity (many states won't recognize permits from states that won't recognize theirs)
6) Long expiration date (or lifetime issuance)

Ideally, I believe making the FOID card a defacto carry permit would do the trick. I believe they're good for 10 years, as well. (That may have changed since I fled....(er....moved away).... from Illinois 10 years ago.)

Many issues that might be vague would be specifically addressed by a CCW permit system. Not as a means to impose restrictions, but as a means to firmly shrug off those that might be attempted to be foisted on gun owners in the future due to lack of definition that unrestricted carry would entail.
 
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J

junglebob

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
361
Location
Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
Superlite27 said:
Previously, I've been advocating Illinoisians to urge their legislators to hold out, not pass legislation, and wait for Constitutional Carry to arrive in 180 days.

However, I'm going to modify my previous belief and concede that CCW legislation needs to be enacted for several reasons.

1) Reciprocity.
2) Confusion regarding "Home rule" status.

If there is no CCW permit legislation, no permit is needed, therefore, no "permission slip" or I.D. card. How will Illinoisians carry in other states that require them? There needs to be implimentation of a permit system to allow for residents to have documentation in order to carry elsewhere other than Illinois. BTW the FOID card is good for 10 years.

There seems to be some confusion regarding the legality of unrestricted carry in home rule cities. While municipalities are unable to define felonies, places like Chicago may still pass local ordinances against any type of carry, and toss people in the slammer for the misdemeanor of carrying a gun. Then, you can sit in Cook County jail for a year while the courts argue for your release, attempt to invalidate unconstitutional laws by municipalities, and all the legal wrangling Chicago suburbs will ALMOST DEFINITELY carry on with regardless of the recent 7th CCOA ruling.

I have come to the conclusion that it would be better to simply pre-empt all the B.S. and pass a CCW permit system with as few "restrictions" (read: Hopefully NONE) as possible. At minimum:

1) Full state pre-emption (discard any namby-pamby Chicago B.S.)
2) MANDATORY SHALL ISSUE (discard any local sheriff B.S.)
3) No training requirement
4) Inconsequential issue fee (or none at all)
5) Full National Reciprocity (many states won't recognize permits from states that won't recognize theirs)
6) Long expiration date (or lifetime issuance)

Ideally, I believe making the FOID card a defacto carry permit would do the trick. I believe they're good for 10 years, as well. (That may have changed since I fled....(er....moved away).... from Illinois 10 years ago.)

Many issues that might be vague would be specifically addressed by a CCW permit system. Not as a means to impose restrictions, but as a means to firmly shrug off those that might be attempted to be foisted on gun owners in the future due to lack of definition that unrestricted carry would entail.
Click to expand...


The carry bill that came up in the Illinois legislature last for a vote was a pretty good bill. It had preemption, was shall issue, carrying a handgun was supposed to be concealed or mostly concealed so printing wasn't an issue. That bill missed having a super majority by only 6 votes, and 3 of those flipped at the last minute when they saw the bill wouldn't pass. I can't see a may issue bill, without preemption, exempting Chicago passing, though the anti gun folks would like that to happen. Hopefully the bill will include some provision for open carry, maybe in unincorporated areas. Even Alaska didn't go from a "right denied state" to an open carry state no permit required, and I don't expect Illinois to.
 
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