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Some people have PM'd me for tax information, here is a good view.

Freedom1Man

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[video=youtube_share;ZW1Pqey_pe4]http://youtu.be/ZW1Pqey_pe4[/video]

Part 2 http://youtu.be/Zltt1Ri8Eqw
Part 3 http://youtu.be/2coLrCNVBWk
Part 4 http://youtu.be/OSPmUUV0Hzw
Part 5 http://youtu.be/HX-cCh7tcZ4
Part 6 http://youtu.be/MqttGSTHtEY


There, if anyone wishes to make any sort of false statement about taxes please understand that I have been researching that area of law since 2001.

12 hours of videos there. If you want to know the truth even watching part 1 is a good start. If you don't care about the facts then please announce that fact and I will do my best to never use facts when dealing with you. Really I will still use facts but I will understand that you cannot handle the facts.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Here is a good overview video to watch before the 12 hour set.

[video=youtube;DwEPAPIjh0Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwEPAPIjh0Y&feature=share&list=PLOM9CtAPZt3oRwOCNAHKnZ_wC-X2E2TOH[/video]
 

georg jetson

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Why are you posting this in response to people asking about taxes? I'm sure you'll find that most of us here disagree with our current tax system. Some of us even understand that it is unconstitutional. No need for the emotional pep talk.
 

Freedom1Man

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Why are you posting this in response to people asking about taxes? I'm sure you'll find that most of us here disagree with our current tax system. Some of us even understand that it is unconstitutional. No need for the emotional pep talk.

The point is that the way the law is written the taxes are perfectly constitutional. It's the misapplication of the laws that make them appear to be unconstitutional.

The videos go into a greater depth than I care to write for people. Why re-invent the wheel when someone else who is better at presenting the information than I am has presented it. I don't believe I could give a better presentation than the 12 hour one, the 2 hours short one is to get out the "quick" facts.

I'm willing to bet that none of the Attorneys here can disprove the 12 hour video.

I can disprove many anti-tax videos. The 12 hour one I cannot disprove and the 2 hour one I have not watched in a long time so I would need to watch it again but, I don't recall being able to disprove that video either.

I am often the first one to call into any show claiming that the income tax is unconstitutional and call BS on their statement.

"America, Freedom to Fascism," fun to watch, the general idea is correct but, I can prove too many parts of it to be incorrect to refer people to as any sort of educational video. He makes enough valid points to be worth watching and if he were to correct the few things he got wrong it would be an excellent video for people to watch. The points he makes about the IRS statements are worth watching it for.
 
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georg jetson

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The point is that the way the law is written the taxes are perfectly constitutional. It's the misapplication of the laws that make them appear to be unconstitutional.

Maybe... so. What's the point?

The videos go into a greater depth than I care to write for people. Why re-invent the wheel when someone else who is better at presenting the information than I am has presented it. I don't believe I could give a better presentation than the 12 hour one, the 2 hours short one is to get out the "quick" facts.

I can understand that.

I'm willing to bet that none of the Attorneys here can disprove the 12 hour video.

So. What's the point?

I can disprove many anti-tax videos. The 12 hour one I cannot disprove and the 2 hour one I have not watched in a long time so I would need to watch it again but, I don't recall being able to disprove that video either.

I am often the first one to call into any show claiming that the income tax is unconstitutional and call BS on their statement.

"America, Freedom to Fascism," fun to watch, the general idea is correct but, I can prove too many parts of it to be incorrect to refer people to as any sort of educational video. He makes enough valid points to be worth watching and if he were to correct the few things he got wrong it would be an excellent video for people to watch. The points he makes about the IRS statements are worth watching it for.

You miss the point of all of this. It doesn't matter if any attorney or non-attorney can prove or disprove any video. It's about what Mr or Mrs Citizen can prove(what can they evidence) in the administrative court they're gonna end up in if they try any practical application of this stuff. I'm not saying someone can't win in tax court, but I am saying that those attempting to do so better be prepared. VERY prepared.

There's a long list of those that have lost in the administrative tax courtroom. They didn't understand the rules and they weren't prepared for the consequence. Making people aware of the most direct way our government enslaves us by taxes is one thing. Getting a bunch of innocent well meaning supporters of liberty on an emotional crusade that ends in them being "tax protester" cannon fodder is another.
 
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Freedom1Man

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There's a long list of those that have lost in the administrative tax courtroom. They didn't understand the rules and they weren't prepared for the consequence. Making people aware of the most direct way our government enslaves us by taxes is one thing. Getting a bunch of innocent well meaning supporters of liberty on an emotional crusade that ends in them being "tax protester" cannon fodder is another.

There, you've lost as soon as you set foot in an administrative tax court.

You're under no obligation to go to an administrative tax court. You have a right to a court of law.

That is why it would seem you don't understand the point of this information. The administrative court thing is covered in the 12 hour video. The law is shown and everything.
 

georg jetson

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There, you've lost as soon as you set foot in an administrative tax court.

You're under no obligation to go to an administrative tax court. You have a right to a court of law.

That is why it would seem you don't understand the point of this information. The administrative court thing is covered in the 12 hour video. The law is shown and everything.

Where in hour 12 exactly?
 

Freedom1Man

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Where in hour 12 exactly?

I will have to watch it all again to be able to tell you in what part it is found, I might be able to skip through the parts and I'll let you know if/when I find it.

Edit----

While this section might not cover the administrative code, I will post once I watch the complete series again, but it seems like it might be Part 4.
It opens with talking about the investigation of citizens.
 
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georg jetson

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I will have to watch it all again to be able to tell you in what part it is found, I might be able to skip through the parts and I'll let you know if/when I find it.

Edit----

While this section might not cover the administrative code, I will post once I watch the complete series again, but it seems like it might be Part 4.
It opens with talking about the investigation of citizens.

I see that this video was uploaded by Michael Nixson. Who is MIchael Nixson? The individual in the video claims to be a Mr. Kotmair. This is an old video... probably 90's... maybe earlier. How has Mr. Kotmair's successes with the IRS been since this video was recorded?

Perhaps this...

http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv06808.htm
 
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Freedom1Man

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I see that this video was uploaded by Michael Nixson. Who is MIchael Nixson? The individual in the video claims to be a Mr. Kotmair. This is an old video... probably 90's... maybe earlier. How has Mr. Kotmair's successes with the IRS been since this video was recorded?

Perhaps this...

http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv06808.htm

Part 3 about 48 minutes in.

I don't know who Michael Nixson is but I have these videos in DVD format.

I've met John in person and he is very well informed. I disagree with him over the tax on alcohol but not about how the law is written.
He thinks that the tax on alcohol is fine, while I believe it's not.
 
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Freedom1Man

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I see that this video was uploaded by Michael Nixson. Who is MIchael Nixson? The individual in the video claims to be a Mr. Kotmair. This is an old video... probably 90's... maybe earlier. How has Mr. Kotmair's successes with the IRS been since this video was recorded?

Perhaps this...

http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv06808.htm

That order was because the SAPF had been winning against the IRS and the the DOJ did not like that.

The IRS lost a big case against the SAPF for the same thing in the 1990's and then had assisted in more wins against the IRS so the DOJ found a corrupt judge to bring the same charges against the SAPF that the SAPF was found not guilt of before that.

It's simply proof that the government is corrupt.

http://save-a-patriot.org/
EDIT
As many are already aware, the Justice Department has filed a frivolous complaint against the Save-A-Patriot Fellowship, alleging that it is an "abusive tax shelter."

The present-day condition of the federal government and the American business community is indicative of an impending financial collapse. General Motors and Ford stock now carry junk-bond status, and foreign investors, whose treasury bond purchases keep our currency afloat, are becoming nervous as our national debt skyrockets at the rate of $1.58 billion per day. So, although their 1993 raid backfired on them badly, apparently the one-world socialists that now control our government can't take the chance of any educational organization operating if that organization can inform bewildered, angry Americans as to what really is happening to them.

Save-A-Patriot has not changed its method of operation since winning against the Department of Justice in court in 1996. (The DOJ appealed that decision, then shortly thereafter asked the court to dismiss its own appeal, with prejudice! The court granted their request and so ordered.) For that matter, we have not changed the way we operate since the Fellowship's inception in 1984.

If the court declared the Fellowship's operation legal in 1996, it must certainly be legal in 2005, and beyond. If the IRS could not find any criminal activity in 1993 and 1994, while they had all of our computers and paper files, surely they would not find any today. Therefore, the current Department of Justice complaint against the Fellowship can only have one reason behind it, other than to harass, and that is to stop the teaching of the Internal Revenue Code as it is exactly written.

The suit is now in its appeal phase, in the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia. The US District Court of Maryland issued a stay of its injunction pending the outcome of this appeal. You can follow along with the appeal through the link to the appeal docket below.
 
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georg jetson

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Part 3 about 48 minutes in.

I don't know who Michael Nixson is but I have these videos in DVD format.

I've met John in person and he is very well informed. I disagree with him over the tax on alcohol but now about how the law is written.
He thinks that the tax on alcohol is fine, while I believe it's not.

I see no reference to anything about having a case brought to federal district court without first being filed in administrative(tax) court.

Additionally, around minute 50 he reads a response letter from an agent of the government to the audience with the last sentence being "... protests the adjustments with no basis other than citing statutory authority." He leaves this hanging and lets the audience come to their own conclusion without giving any background, such as any court orders that he may be improperly disregarding. I think he intentionally misleads at this point.
 
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Freedom1Man

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I see no reference to anything about having a case brought to federal court without first being filed in administrative(tax) court.

Additionally, around minute 50 he reads a response letter from an agent of the government to the audience with the last sentence being "... protests the adjustments with no basis other than citing statutory authority." He leaves this hanging and lets the audience come to their own conclusion without giving any background, such as any court orders that he may be improperly disregarding. I think he intentionally misleads at this point.

You asked for the tax court part. I gave that to you. If you skipped to that it is being taken out of context or you did not listen. He said that to go to tax court you have to request to go there and that he would never make that mistake again.
Tax court is a "fact finding" court and has limited authority. It is explained in the video if you would watch even that section as a whole. Even better if you watch the whole series.

"Is the internal revenue code tax protester stuff?"
 
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georg jetson

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You asked for the tax court part. I gave that to you. If you skipped to that it is being taken out of context or you did not listen. He said that to go to tax court you have to request to go there and that he would never make that mistake again.
Tax court is a "fact finding" court and has limited authority. It is explained in the video if you would watch even that section as a whole. Even better if you watch the whole series.

"Is the internal revenue code tax protester stuff?"

Ok. You said "There, you've lost as soon as you set foot in an administrative tax court.

You're under no obligation to go to an administrative tax court. You have a right to a court of law."

I asked if you could tell me exactly where this was contained. If you're answer my question using part 3 about 48 minutes in then I think we misunderstand each other.

EDITED - At a minimum, if you don’t go to tax court, the court will render a judgment against you and the IRS will enforce the judgment. Where in the 12 hour video does Mr. Kotmair explain how he enforces his "right to a court of law". I agree we have a "right to a court of law" but the process starts in the admin court according to the rules of the Administrative Procedures Act. If the defendant loses in the admin court then he can appeal to district court according to the APA.
 
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georg jetson

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That order was because the SAPF had been winning against the IRS and the the DOJ did not like that.

The IRS lost a big case against the SAPF for the same thing in the 1990's and then had assisted in more wins against the IRS so the DOJ found a corrupt judge to bring the same charges against the SAPF that the SAPF was found not guilt of before that.

It's simply proof that the government is corrupt.

http://save-a-patriot.org/
EDIT

So... according to this http://save-a-patriot.org/doj/appeal-docket/appeal-docket.html

He lost in district court, filed an appeal and the appeals court affirmed the district court's ruling. He then applied for a rehearing which was denied and then filed a motion to stay the mandate which was denied.

It should matter to those interested in fighting the IRS using Mr. Kotmair's ideas that he and his organization are, by court order, barred from "selling a tax-fraud scheme". This order was issued late in 2007.
 

Freedom1Man

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Ok. You said "There, you've lost as soon as you set foot in an administrative tax court.

You're under no obligation to go to an administrative tax court. You have a right to a court of law."

I asked if you could tell me exactly where this was contained. If you're answer my question using part 3 about 48 minutes in then I think we misunderstand each other.

EDITED - At a minimum, if you don’t go to tax court, the court will render a judgment against you and the IRS will enforce the judgment. Where in the 12 hour video does Mr. Kotmair explain how he enforces his "right to a court of law". I agree we have a "right to a court of law" but the process starts in the admin court according to the rules of the Administrative Procedures Act. If the defendant loses in the admin court then he can appeal to district court according to the APA.

A tax court cannot summon you. It cannot assess a tax either.

You can only go there if you petition to go there.
 

georg jetson

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A tax court cannot summon you. It cannot assess a tax either.

You can only go there if you petition to go there.

The tax court is there as your administrative remedy. I didn't say a tax court assesses or summons anything. It does have the power to render judgment which is usually monetary. This judgement can and usually will be used to attach to your property etc...
 

Freedom1Man

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The tax court is there as your administrative remedy. I didn't say a tax court assesses or summons anything. It does have the power to render judgment which is usually monetary. This judgement can and usually will be used to attach to your property etc...

So why would anyone but someone who is either ignorant or a fool go to tax court then?

You implied that people are being forced to go to tax court.
 

georg jetson

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So why would anyone but someone who is either ignorant or a fool go to tax court then?

You implied that people are being forced to go to tax court.

If they don't go, the IRS will get a judgement against them. If they go contest the case and lose, then they can appeal to district court.

The only ones ignorant or foolish are those attempting to fight the IRS relying on arguments that have already FAILED. Those interested in testing Mr. Kotmair's theories should apply due diligence and research all the cases where these theories have indeed failed. Also, regardless of what anyone says, you WILL end up in court. Will it be administrative or criminal will depend on how far you're willing to take this and how well you learn the rules of whatever courtroom you find yourself.

I have found out first hand how evil and treacherous the IRS can be. In my opinion it's gonna take a political movement to get rid of the IRS mob. The system has the upper hand when we fight them one by one.
 
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