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Thread: Clackamas Town center

  1. #1
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    Clackamas Town center

    Heard there was a shooting there today. Not sure I heard correctly.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    http://www.katu.com/news/live

    Live stream on the incident....4 people down from reports. Another "gun free" zone.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    Another "gun free" zone.
    Oh yeah? I've never been there. Do they have gun buster signs or what?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The Clackamas Town Center is owned by "General Growth Properties", a Chicago-based property management company, and one of the largest mall-owning consortiums on the planet.

    I believe that GGP has a corporate policy prohibiting ALL weapons on their properties, but I do not know about this specific location. Their website has no "code of conduct" that I can find, so someone local is going to have to let us know if the Clackamas Town Center is in fact "posted".

    Obviously it CAN'T have been posted, because everyone knows that if it WAS posted, this event would be impossible because criminals and crazy people ALWAYS follow the law and obey the policies of private property owners...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    CTC shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The Clackamas Town Center is owned by "General Growth Properties", a Chicago-based property management company, and one of the largest mall-owning consortiums on the planet.

    I believe that GGP has a corporate policy prohibiting ALL weapons on their properties, but I do not know about this specific location. Their website has no "code of conduct" that I can find, so someone local is going to have to let us know if the Clackamas Town Center is in fact "posted".

    Obviously it CAN'T have been posted, because everyone knows that if it WAS posted, this event would be impossible because criminals and crazy people ALWAYS follow the law and obey the policies of private property owners...
    I am curious of the policy as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The Clackamas Town Center is owned by "General Growth Properties", a Chicago-based property management company, and one of the largest mall-owning consortiums on the planet.

    I believe that GGP has a corporate policy prohibiting ALL weapons on their properties, but I do not know about this specific location. Their website has no "code of conduct" that I can find, so someone local is going to have to let us know if the Clackamas Town Center is in fact "posted".
    All due respect, what you "believe" may or may not be the case. It is important to verify that, one way or the other.

    Anybody here ever been to the Clackamas Mall? Worked there?

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    I has been a while since I have been to Clackamas TC, but they are posted. It's inside the main entrances to the mall, listed with all the don'ts of the mall (ie no skateboarding, etc). I don't think there are signs at store entrances, just the mall. I don't remember the exact wording.

    Better link

    A gunman shot and killed two people and critically injured a third person at Clackamas Town Center mall on Tuesday afternoon. The shooter then turned the gun and killed himself,
    Oregonian sports columnist John Canzano, was pulling up to the mall when the shooting happened. He said people reported hearing around 60 shots from the food court.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Research Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    I has been a while since I have been to Clackamas TC, but they are posted. It's inside the main entrances to the mall, listed with all the don'ts of the mall (ie no skateboarding, etc). I don't think there are signs at store entrances, just the mall. I don't remember the exact wording.

    Better link
    I'm preparing to write a blog entry and would be very grateful if anyone could get me a photo of the "do's and dont's" actually posted at Clackamas Town Center. Shoot me an email here.

    Thanks,

    GC

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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    Confirmed on John Lott's site

    Quote Originally Posted by Gay_Cynic View Post
    I'm preparing to write a blog entry and would be very grateful if anyone could get me a photo of the "do's and dont's" actually posted at Clackamas Town Center. Shoot me an email here.

    Thanks,

    GC
    John Lott had two reliable people confirm that the mall is a "GFZ, safe criminal working environment", although one says "screw 'em" and carries anyway...

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    The shooting in Portland was, in my mind, a worst case scenario for carriers. A shooter with a rifle and us with a handgun. I think unless you were very close, inside 25 yards at the max, the best you could do is draw fire away from others towards yourself. Even at 25 yards I'm not sure I would be successful stopping the threat of a determined shooter with my LC9. I'm confidant that with my 1911 I would have a much better chance even to as far as 40 yards or so. I may have to review my carry options now. Be safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtackDuck View Post
    John Lott had two reliable people confirm that the mall is a "GFZ, safe criminal working environment", although one says "screw 'em" and carries anyway...
    Screw 'em is right. Costco, the Mall, etc. I CC. There is NO way I'm going to get caught without, now if I could just get around this where I actually work.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    All due respect, what you "believe" may or may not be the case. It is important to verify that, one way or the other.

    Anybody here ever been to the Clackamas Mall? Worked there?
    Good one, Dave. (sarcasm)

    Dreamer's phrasing is just another way of saying, "I think so, but I can't clearly recall." And, then he himself went on to say it needs to be verified. Moreover, he tried to verify it himself and said so right in the post you quoted.

    Brilliant invalidation, Dave. Brilliant.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Shooter Identified

    Apparently it was an AR-15 and it was stolen. Article does not illustrate whether the shooter stole it or acquired the rifle later. Still no word on whether the shooter was actually wearing body armor or just a tactical style vest.
    http://news.yahoo.com/police-ore-mal...181931596.html
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  14. #14
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    Latest is NO body armor and AR stolen from a friend earlier that day. No definite count on number of rounds fired has been released yet. Have heard as low as 12 and as many as 60.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    It was stolen

    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Apparently it was an AR-15 and it was stolen. Article does not illustrate whether the shooter stole it or acquired the rifle later. Still no word on whether the shooter was actually wearing body armor or just a tactical style vest.
    http://news.yahoo.com/police-ore-mal...181931596.html
    The news report I read said that the shooter had stolen the weapon from his friend. It was also reported that the weapon jammed but he was able to fix it and continue shooting. At least he killed himself- no need for a trial.

  16. #16
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    This is the same company that owns the mall here in Medford. I don't spend my money there since the day they met me at the door and gave me the "can't come in" spiel.

    As for engaging an active shooter with a rifle........if the shooter engages you you have no choice. If he hasn't, I would simply retreat. I would also recommend carrying a more capable firearm. The FN 5.7 pistol is capable of engaging at 100 yards with only a 3-5 inch drop. If you are HALF that distance in a mall shooting situation you should have no problem finding cover and an escape route..

    Remember.....that OC or CC firearm you pack is to protect YOU and YOURS. Yes you are allowed to go to the aid of another person BUT......That other person made their choice not to carry. For all you know it's Paul Helmke, Ginny Burdick, or one of their ilk. I suggest egressing unless you are engaged by the criminal.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  17. #17
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    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

    Apparently there was a concealed permit holder inside at the time of the shooting.

  18. #18
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddin99 View Post
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

    Apparently there was a concealed permit holder inside at the time of the shooting.
    OH MY.....he must not have known about the malls no firearms policy.

    Odds are, there were more CHL holders at the mall (statistically it's a damn good chance) and they just departed.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    I am not going to second guess someone who was there, I wasn't.
    He made the right call for him, at the time, for where he was, based on the situation.

    "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
    I like to believe that the gunman saw this CHL carrier and that is why the next shot took himself out.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Aside from the KGW interview additional details from first person sources about the actions of the CHL holder who was present: http://www.easybakegunclub.com/blog/...ro-at-Protland

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    Aside from the KGW interview additional details from first person sources about the actions of the CHL holder who was present: http://www.easybakegunclub.com/blog/...ro-at-Protland

    Virtually non-existent coverage by news media and as yet, not addressed by CCSO.

  22. #22
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    The stories of what the CHL holder did are inconsistent within the media. This could be due to different writers and varying stages of shock/stress/etc. at the time of any interviews as well as differing focus areas of the stories. While I'd love to just take the version most favorable to the "cause", I don't think we're able to make a determination that the CHL holder did anything that stopped any violence on the part of the shooter.

    We can, however, say that he DEFINITELY had the means to defend himself and those he cared about........AND..........that he MAY have saved lives......
    ..........because he violated the private policy of the mall and LAWFULLLY carried his weapon.

    The second amendment.....don't leave home without exercising it!!!!!
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    A lengthier, more candid and detailed account from Meli and his GF http://5440fight.com/2012/12/17/the-...mall-shooting/

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