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Thread: My wife has a question about carrying in an alcohol serving bar/restaurant..

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    My wife has a question about carrying in an alcohol serving bar/restaurant..

    Ok, so I'm trying to teach the wife the dos and donts. Today is her first day OCing and her permit is in the works. She asked about bars but I was under the impression there really aren't any "bars" in Virginia. That if she's carrying entry is ok, drinking is not. Are there bars here and what are the rules. I recall there being barlike establishments in Norfolk (Granby St) but I'm not sure, nor can I seem to find the answer. Thanks in advance.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Ok, so I'm trying to teach the wife the dos and donts. Today is her first day OCing and her permit is in the works. She asked about bars but I was under the impression there really aren't any "bars" in Virginia. That if she's carrying entry is ok, drinking is not. Are there bars here and what are the rules. I recall there being barlike establishments in Norfolk (Granby St) but I'm not sure, nor can I seem to find the answer. Thanks in advance.
    There are no bars here, there are restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption. Concealed carry or open carry is ok.

    I think that this class would be a wonderful Christmas gift for your wife! - http://proactiveshooters.com/general...d-carry-in-va/


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    Thanks.. might do that for both of us. Any discounts (mil, group or couples).. there now we were shameless together.... Lol

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Ok, so I'm trying to teach the wife the dos and donts. Today is her first day OCing and her permit is in the works. She asked about bars but I was under the impression there really aren't any "bars" in Virginia. That if she's carrying entry is ok, drinking is not. Are there bars here and what are the rules. I recall there being barlike establishments in Norfolk (Granby St) but I'm not sure, nor can I seem to find the answer. Thanks in advance.
    Bars vs restaurants - the Virginia ABC requires that a certain percentage of sales be devoted to food; hence all such establishments that sell liquor by the drink for on premises consumption are restaurants.

    One may OC and drink in these establishments, though it is discouraged by most here.

    If you CC, you cannot drink. LEOs and commonwealth attorneys are excluded from this restriction.

    Even the media uses the term "bars"
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070101970.html

    See Restaurant Carry:
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-12-2012 at 12:39 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Thanks.. might do that for both of us. Any discounts (mil, group or couples).. there now we were shameless together.... Lol
    Unfortunately, we don't have a discount set up. I can promise you a front row seat though!
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If you CC, you cannot drink. LEOs and commonwealth attorneys are excluded from this restriction.
    Interesting thought just occurred to me... I've never seen anyone say anything about judges. What happens when a Commonwealth's Attorney gets appointed to be a judge? Are they then subject to the restriction?

    TFred

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Interesting thought just occurred to me... I've never seen anyone say anything about judges. What happens when a Commonwealth's Attorney gets appointed to be a judge? Are they then subject to the restriction?

    TFred
    I would assume so, since they are no longer a CA
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Interesting thought just occurred to me... I've never seen anyone say anything about judges. What happens when a Commonwealth's Attorney gets appointed to be a judge? Are they then subject to the restriction?

    TFred
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I would assume so, since they are no longer a CA
    Loophoole! Loophole!

    Hadn't thought about that one. A judge needs a permit to CC, just like us commoners.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I believe judges are conservators of the peace. Aren't they "on duty" 24/7?

    18.2-308.C. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:

    1. Carriers of the United States mail;

    2. Officers or guards of any state correctional institution;

    3. [Repealed.]

    4. Conservators of the peace, except that an attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth may carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision B 9. However, the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit as provided in subsection D hereof: (a) notaries public; (b) registrars; (c) drivers, operators or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire; or (d) commissioners in chancery;

    5. Noncustodial employees of the Department of Corrections designated to carry weapons by the Director of the Department of Corrections pursuant to § 53.1-29; and

    6. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 12-13-2012 at 03:21 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    I believe judges are conservators of the peace. Aren't they "on duty" 24/7?

    18.2-308.C. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:

    1. Carriers of the United States mail;

    2. Officers or guards of any state correctional institution;

    3. [Repealed.]

    4. Conservators of the peace, except that an attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth may carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision B 9. However, the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit as provided in subsection D hereof: (a) notaries public; (b) registrars; (c) drivers, operators or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire; or (d) commissioners in chancery;

    5. Noncustodial employees of the Department of Corrections designated to carry weapons by the Director of the Department of Corrections pursuant to § 53.1-29; and

    6. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.

    That is not my understanding.

    Generically, we often refer to LEOs, sheriffs, and judges as 'conservators of the peace", but in Virginia there is a more specific meaning = one appointed by circuit court judge in accordance with the Department of Criminal Justices Services standards for any specific place within the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    The terms "conservator of the peace" and "special conservator of the peace" are used interchangeably within the Code of Virginia and basically defines a special police office/security officer.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+19.2-13

    http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/...&context=wlulr
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-13-2012 at 04:04 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is not my understanding.

    Generically, we often refer to LEOs, sheriffs, and judges as 'conservators of the peace", but in Virginia there is a more specific meaning = one appointed by circuit court judge in accordance with the Department of Criminal Justices Services standards for any specific place within the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    The terms "conservator of the peace" and "special conservator of the peace" are used interchangeably within the Code of Virginia and basically defines a special police office/security officer.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+19.2-13

    http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/...&context=wlulr

    A conservator of the peace is generally used for people like police dept's civilian booking tech's who can then serve warrants on prisoners to allow officers to get back on the road.....or for folks like Henrico's armed security wing of the Dept. of General Services who close down and lock up the libraries, county parks, etc at night. They are granted that authority by the Circuit Court of the respective county.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 12-13-2012 at 01:47 PM.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Loopholes or not... does anyone actually think that a sitting judge would be a) charged with carrying a concealed handgun without a permit, and even if so, b) convicted by a colleague?

    They would have to go crazy and shoot up a day-care before such a charge would ever be prosecuted.

    TFred

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Loopholes or not... does anyone actually think that a sitting judge would be a) charged with carrying a concealed handgun without a permit, and even if so, b) convicted by a colleague?

    They would have to go crazy and shoot up a day-care before such a charge would ever be prosecuted.

    TFred
    I seem to remember some Virginia judges getting charged with domestic assault and shoplifting respectively, although I cannot find the stories now.
    James Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'm not sure it's ever come up but Magistrates are also Judges and carry without permits. Richmond used to (Don't know if they still do) give Judges a handgun when they were appointed.
    I know a few that carry 24/7 and none have a permit.

    It is an interesting question about it being legal or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    SNIP Richmond used to (Don't know if they still do) give Judges a handgun when they were appointed.
    Jeezus! They hand out some stiff sentences in Richmond!

    On the other hand, it would tend to cut down on the lengthy appeals process in capital cases.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Can't find it specifically for CC judges, but under code of Va district court judges are Conservators of the peace.

    16.1-69.26. Judges as conservators of the peace.

    The judge of each district court having criminal jurisdiction shall be a conservator of the peace within the limits of the territory in which he serves; and if such court is a city court, the judge thereof shall, except as otherwise provided by general law, also be a conservator of the peace for the area extending for one mile beyond the corporate limits of the city.

    (1972, c. 708; 1973, c. 546.)


    Also Wikipedea indicates "Judges" are conservators of the peace under common law. Still looking for specifics on CC judges but would so far I would generally assume they are.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Ok, so I'm trying to teach the wife the dos and donts. Today is her first day OCing and her permit is in the works.
    There is no permit for OC in Virginia
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    There is no permit for OC in Virginia
    +10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    There is no permit for OC in Virginia
    +10

    In spirit of of those who say the 2nd Amendment is the carry permit (although the right predates and is not granted by the amendment), here is Virginia's OC permit:

    Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
    That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. VA Constitution.

    The nearest historical legal precedent of which I am aware is the English Declaration of Rights 1689:

    "That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;"


    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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