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Modifying justifiable homicide provisions.

1245A Defender

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SeattleWingsfan

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If I feel myself or people I am with are in danger enough to draw my weapon. I'm shooting. Now if I see a situation and I am not involved and can avoid that situation, that will be first atempt and before I draw my weapon.

I don't see how the phrase knows or should know can hold up. If I see one guy causing harm or with a gun. My assumption for saftey is that more people are around as well even if I can't see them. Retreat could actually put you in a worse position in some situations. How am I to know everything thats going on, and know or should know that it's the best option for my safety.
 

BigDave

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Washington State House Bill 1012 Introduced

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House Bills/1012.pdf

HB 1012 - 2013-14 prefiled bill regarding duty to retreat. I see a slippery slope on the horizon with regard to firearms used in self defense.

~Whitney

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1012

Note it was just introduced today by Representative Appleton with no cosponsors from my understanding dems or anti-gun legislators do not have the numbers to push though such a bill.

This bill would go against our Washington State Constitution and what is already in case law.
 

compmanio365

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Contact info for the wonderful Democrat legislator:

Rep. Sherry Appleton
LEG 132
FPO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
(360) 786-7934
appleton.sherry@leg.wa.gov

Why not call, write or type an email and let her know what you think about this attempt to infringe upon our right to self defense. I'm drafting a letter right now.
 

slapmonkay

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http://www.examiner.com/article/ore...rifle-wash-bill-would-change-self-defense-law

Ironically, a Washington State lawmaker has just pre-filed a bill to dramatically change the Evergreen State’s long-standing self-defense statute to require citizens to retreat from a threat before using lethal force to stop a potentially deadly attack. Democratic State Rep. Sherry Appleton (23rd District) wants to change the law to read, “Homicide shall not be justifiable under this statute if the slayer knows or should know that he or she could avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating.” This is House Bill 1012, and it may be read here.

Appleton, from Poulsbo, did not return a call from Examiner.
 

Metalhead47

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Could somebody explain to me, at least in theory, from the libtard point of view, how such a law does anything other than protect a bad guy, or how it actually benefits "society?" I'm just trying to understand the (il)logic here.
 

MSG Laigaie

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Have you not heard? Guns are for LEOs and you should run and hide during an emergency.
I do not do purple.

I will send an email, a letter an I will call them in the morning. They think they are empowered now that obama is back.
 

rapgood

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Appleton's voting history seems to indicate that she is anti-all-things-gun.
We'll just dub her bill the "Anti-Castle Act."
 

Metalhead47

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Appleton's voting history seems to indicate that she is anti-all-things-gun.
We'll just dub her bill the "Anti-Castle Act."


You give her too much credit. She'd probably think you mean she just doesn't like this guy:

castle.jpg
 

LkWd_Don

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Last edited:

MSG Laigaie

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Without a corresponding State Constitutional Amendment being enacted to take away the right of the People to come to the defense of others, I do not see much chance of this bill surviving.

This may be true, but please allow your proud representative (protector of evil) to know your views on her conduct. If we do not remind them when they act out, they will not know they do us an injustice.
 

CA2373

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Des Moines
Contact info for the wonderful Democrat legislator:

Rep. Sherry Appleton
LEG 132
FPO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
(360) 786-7934
appleton.sherry@leg.wa.gov

Why not call, write or type an email and let her know what you think about this attempt to infringe upon our right to self defense. I'm drafting a letter right now.

Letter sent. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
 

Freedom1Man

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Greater Eastside Washington
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1012

Note it was just introduced today by Representative Appleton with no cosponsors from my understanding dems or anti-gun legislators do not have the numbers to push though such a bill.

This bill would go against our Washington State Constitution and what is already in case law.

It would definitely violate the constitution, BUT the way things are now, you would not be able challenge the law (if it were to pass) unless you shoot someone. Then the burden of proof is on you to prove that the law is in fact unconstitutional. The state claims that ALL laws are constitutional until PROVEN to be unconstitutional. I believe that to be bass ackwards. I BELIEVE that all laws are unconstitutional until the STATE can prove that they are.
 

LkWd_Don

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This may be true, but please allow your proud representative (protector of evil) to know your views on her conduct. If we do not remind them when they act out, they will not know they do us an injustice.

Not that Lib's Kirby or Ladenburg will be worth any more than a bad case of the runs, but letters have already been sent.
 

MSG Laigaie

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I received a reply. I was a bit confused by her answer, so I asked for a clarification. I will post it when she replys.


Dear John,
What the bill represents is if you are in a potentially dangerous situation and you have an avenue
of retreat - you should take it. If you don't you can use your firearm to protect yourself and your family. These Stand your Ground laws have led to many senseless murders when there was an avenue to escape. I am just clarifying the statute.


Sherry
Representative Sherry Appleton
Washington State House of Representatives
23rd Legislative District
360 786-7934
360 697-2588
Sent from my iPad


Hello, I am Master Sergeant John Laigaie and I was appalled at the changes you wish to make to RCW 9A.16.050. This kind of run and hide thought is not in line with the thinking of the People of Washington. With the cutbacks on almost every service the State government is providing, you can no longer protect me or my family. Fewer emergency services, fewer law enforcement. More attempts at crime in my area. I do not wish to be disarmed or sent to jail or worse for protecting myself and my loved ones.
Do not protect or empower criminals with this sort of legislation. Do not try to alter the Constitution of Washington State or the Republic. Do not waste my tax dollars on what will be a failed attempt in this endeavor.
I would appreciate a reply to this email in order to understand your motivation in house bill 1012.
Thank you for your time, MSG John Laigaie
 

LkWd_Don

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Messages
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~~ snipped ~~ Dear John,
What the bill represents is if you are in a potentially dangerous situation and you have an avenue
of retreat - you should take it. If you don't you can use your firearm to protect yourself and your family. These Stand your Ground laws have led to many senseless murders when there was an avenue to escape. I am just clarifying the statute.


Sherry
Representative Sherry Appleton
Washington State House of Representatives
23rd Legislative District
360 786-7934
360 697-2588
~~ snipped ~~

At least you got a prompt reply. Wife and I are still waiting a response from Representatives Steve Kirby, Connie Ladenburg, and we even wrote to Senator Steve Conway.
 

MSG Laigaie

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Messages
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Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I have trouble with the "senseless murder" part. If I stand my ground, and I shall, I am NOT committing a murder. I am conducting an act of Self Defense.

This type of "feel good" legislation is a waste of my tax money and it inflames the public.

Now, did I stay home yesterday and hide my little pistol? NO, I went about my life as I do everyday. My Sweet Baboo and I went Shopping. You know the kind. We went to Ross, TJ Max, those kind of stores. Full (no,packed) of women shopping and dragging husbands behind. Only comment was while I was waiting in line to check out. I heard a guy behind me say "Hey, that guy is wearing a Gun!" other guy.."He must work here"..."He wouldn't be in line if he was working here"...."He looks OK, I don't have a problem with it"
Keep Calm and Carry On. By being normal we will become normal. Most people support us in your endeavor.
 

MSG Laigaie

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Messages
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Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Reply #2

John,
This explains the bill. If after this you still don't like the bill, feel free to come down to testify against it. I believe it is the right thing to do.

“The current statute is very vague as to which situations can serve as justification for homicide; it technically allows a citizen to kill another to prevent the commission of any felony in his or presence, even when there was no human life or safety in jeopardy. This has never been the law in Washington, because Washington’s courts have always interpreted the statute to require that the homicide be committed to prevent the loss of human life or great personal injury. The changes in this bill with regard to the commission of a felony help match the statute up to the actual current law in Washington.

As to the retreat requirement in this bill, a citizen would, under this bill, still be entitled to use deadly force to protect him or herself, his or her family, or anyone else in his or presence. However, if the citizen had a completely safe alternative to violence to prevent the confrontation or harm, the law requires the person to take that alternative instead of committing homicide.”


This came this morning. I must thank her for her quick response.
Now I must compose a calm and concise response when my opportunity to testify comes.

I have a Mother and I am adult enough, for the most part, to take care of myself. I am offended that the rep thinks she has to legislate in my behalf, against my behalf. Confusing, eh? I guess I will have to tell her how I really feel.
 
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