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Thread: Disarmed in Aurora by PD

  1. #1
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Disarmed in Aurora by PD

    From a Colorado OC'er


    I was in walmart doing some shopping. When I left and turned the corner just outside the door. 6 LEO's grabbed my arms before I even knew what was going on, and twisted my arms until they hurt, took my wallet, and disarmed me before they even said a word. They told me that I was freaking everyone out inside the store. One of the officers told me thankyou for OC'ing, but he others were not so nice. They didnt say much to me but that in that part of town the only ones that carry guns were gang members, and that I should get my concealed carry. They detained me for just under 8 minutes or so, while they run my id, and looked at my 1911. They handed my 1911 back to me and hesitated to give me my magazine back, and told me to wait until I got back to my car to load it again.

    he is asking for recommendations for a good lawyer. Can anyone help?
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Walmart should have video of the incident. Get any lawyer just to get that video, pronto! Was the citizen recording?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    I doubt he was recording. He's young and new.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  4. #4
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    If happened as OP (grabbed & hurt w/o being told Police) that's assault. Since they were armed (even if weapons not used) that might even make it felony assault! Contact State Police/AG about pressing charges!
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    "They didnt say much to me but that in that part of town the only ones that carry guns were gang members..."

    Wow... of all the completely illogical and nonsensical statements I've heard, this one takes the cake. Gang members do not generally open carry. ESPECIALLY in respected establishments like department stores. Gang members rarely even purchase holsters for their guns.

    I have friends and family in law enforcement and great respect for what they do, but whatever cop made this statement just lowered the public image for all LEOs. What an idiot.

    This is very disappointing to read as I have carried, and will continue to carry, when I perform nighttime maintenance on the network at a branch office in a very bad part of Aurora. I usually try to conceal, but that's not always practical and I hate to think the local LEOs would be that ignorant and disrespectful if I should ever have an encounter.

  6. #6
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I wonder if the "SWAT Team" would have been summoned if RedDawg had been carrying an aerosol can of Berryman's carburetor cleaner with an attached BIC lighter ?????????????..........Hmmmm......

    www.denver.cbs.com

    If the link doesn't work just google Denver news - regarding the home invasion with an aerosol dispenser filled GASOLINE last night.

    This might be something for Governor Hickenlooper, and his anti cronies in Denver to also consider..............along with banning AR-15's.????? I thought AR-15's were already illegal in Denver.

    Must also ban all flint rocks, carrying TWO pieces of steel at the same time, etc, etc...............
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 12-14-2012 at 11:21 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    welcome to the police state

    I have read of previous OC-APD encounters where the LEOs actions conform to a seeming departmental policy of verbally discouraging the practice of OC, but without the grabbing. The new improved policy does seem in line with that recent incident where the APD cuffed about 40 citizens at an intersection to trap a bank robber.

    (You probably already are familiar with that event. If not see http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/ ).
    Last edited by Anubis; 12-16-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    From a Colorado OC'er


    I was in walmart doing some shopping. When I left and turned the corner just outside the door. 6 LEO's grabbed my arms before I even knew what was going on, and twisted my arms until they hurt, took my wallet, and disarmed me before they even said a word. They told me that I was freaking everyone out inside the store. One of the officers told me thankyou for OC'ing, but he others were not so nice. They didnt say much to me but that in that part of town the only ones that carry guns were gang members, and that I should get my concealed carry. They detained me for just under 8 minutes or so, while they run my id, and looked at my 1911. They handed my 1911 back to me and hesitated to give me my magazine back, and told me to wait until I got back to my car to load it again.

    he is asking for recommendations for a good lawyer. Can anyone help?
    False arrest and battery. No RAS. Check with CO Bar Association for a list of attorneys. The Aurora cops are thugs who think they're above the law. Here is your chance to show them they are not.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Attorneys

    You can also get a referral from the NRA or RMGO to firearms attorneys. There is one in Denver that specializes in exactly this sort of thing.

  10. #10
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    2A attorneys

    Colorado Springs

    Allen C. Gasper

    719-227-7779





    Colorado Springs

    Stephen D. Benson

    719-475-0709


    If it occurred as stated you have a lot to work with.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    From City of Aurora, CO Municipal Code:

    Sec. 94-152. - Firearms on private property.

    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.
    (b)
    It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment after such person has been given verbal notice that the carrying of firearms is prohibited on such property, building, or establishment.
    (c)
    Possession of a permit issued pursuant to C.R.S. 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to repeal, or possession of a permit or temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to pt. 2 of art. 18 of tit. 9 of the Colorado Revised Statutes shall be no defense to a violation of this section.
    (Ord. No. 2003-56, § 3, 9-8-2003; Ord. No. 2010-24, § 7, 7-12-2010)
    Editor's note—
    Ord. No. 2003-56, § 3, adopted Sept. 8, 2003, repealed and reenacted the former § 94-152, and enacted a new § 94-152 as set out herein. The former § 94-152 pertained to possession of firearm by juvenile and derived from Code 1979, § 27-121.

    Unless Wal-Mart has a signed posted "No Firearms," you have a case against Aurora PD. Open carry in Aurora is legal. Refer to Sections 94-141 through 94-154 for the laws in Aurora pertaining to firearms.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33 View Post
    Unless Wal-Mart has a signed posted "No Firearms," you have a case against Aurora PD.
    Even if the place were posted, the story made no mention of the OCer's being asked to leave before he walked into the ambush.
    Last edited by Anubis; 01-02-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Even if the place were posted, the story made no mention of the OCer's being asked to leave before he walked into the ambush.
    Well if there's no sign, there's no need to be asked to leave. If there's a sign, that's technically and legally warning enough. According to Aurora Municipal Code anyway.
    Last edited by Vader33; 01-02-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33 View Post
    Well if there's no sign, there's no need to be asked to leave. If there's a sign, that's technically and legally warning enough. According to Aurora Municipal Code anyway.

    IANAL but isn't Aurora's code unenforceable? Does not state preemption make the following invalid?
    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.

    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Seek an attorney to sue the police for violations of your 4th and 2d amendment rights under 42 USC 1983 on a CONTINGENT basis - sounds like you were seized and search without the required reasonable suspicion, and probable cause respectively. Try lawyer referral services - the state bar may offer these.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    Disarmed in Aurora by PD

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    IANAL but isn't Aurora's code unenforceable? Does not state preemption make the following invalid?
    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.

    This might be a grey area. I was always under the presumption that a municipality could always add to, not take away from, state laws. Just as the states do in regards to federal laws.

    I really wish we had an attorney on the boards who was versed in this sort of thing. What's the point in local laws if the state law trumps all of them?
    Last edited by Vader33; 01-02-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33 View Post
    This might be a grey area. I was always under the presumption that a municipality could always add to, not take away from, state laws. Just as the states do in regards to federal laws.

    I really wish we had an attorney on the boards who was versed in this sort of thing. What's the point in local laws if the state law trumps all of them?
    It's the other way around. State law trumps local law. Municipalities can only make laws equal to or less than what state law is.

    Denver is the exception as they have challenged the state in certain areas and for the time being get away with some things, such as their current enforceable ban on OC.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Lawyer who's ad is on opencarry.org


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    Denver's OC ban is only enforceable to the extent that someone who is charged under it can challenge it up to the SC and perhaps get a real decision. They deadlocked last time meaning it is still an open issue.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Disarmed in Aurora by PD

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon View Post
    Denver's OC ban is only enforceable to the extent that someone who is charged under it can challenge it up to the SC and perhaps get a real decision. They deadlocked last time meaning it is still an open issue.
    I would contribute to a defense fund for someone willing to challenge.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33
    I really wish we had an attorney on the boards who was versed in this sort of thing.
    Mike has already commented on this thread, giving his opinion that the OP has grounds for (at least) a 42USC1983 suit. There are several members who are lawyers, or rather have told us they are lawyers. There are probably more people who are lawyers who don't want to be known as such, for whatever reason. You could also go ask User or Administrator.

    And Adam, since you're new here you obviously haven't read enough yet to learn that the 2 owners of this site are lawyers. From what I can tell, they are both decent, honorable men.
    I also have the good fortune to know several others. (People who are lawyers who are decent & honorable, that is.) A couple of them have helped me immensely.

    Also, you did agree to follow the forum rules when you signed up here. I recommend you re-read them, especially #9:
    (9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-25-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Partial quote, MKEGal:

    "Also, you did agree to follow the forum rules when you signed up here. I recommend you re-read them, especially #9:[/QUOTE]"



    I may be missing something here, but I fail to see how Vader violated forum rules. Seemed to me he was simply making an albeitly uninformed statement.

    Edit: I can't seem to get the quote function to work properly. It's been a couple of years since I used these boards, so please bear with me while I get back into practice.
    Last edited by Alamo Jack; 01-25-2013 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Message did not quote properly

  23. #23
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    I think MKEGal was addressing two different posters, one in each paragraph. The portion of her post directed to Adam, I believe, is because of the one directly above hers, and not Vader.

    ...at least that how I see it after reading it a few times...
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Talking

    Sorry, my bad. I just reread her comment AGAIN after you pointed that out. I completely missed the part where she changes who the portions of the comment are directed at.

    This is what I get from posting before I've had my coffee.

  25. #25
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    . advice.

    they keep the recordings for 30 days. If u was stoped by any entry. It would have been recorded also if los prevention was involved there will be a log entry.

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