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Thread: Most people don't know their rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Most people don't know their rights

    At work the other day we were discussing an incident that happened in our state between a college student and LEO. Long story short, the student exercised his rights, cop get's pi$$ed off and then violates the students rights, student films the whole thing and the LEO gets fired. A few of my co-workers couldn't figure out what the LEO had done wrong (he did and illegal search in the kids dorm room)

    I felt this would be a good time to do a little "test" on my "peers". So out of the 7 or 8 guys standing around I first ask who knew what the first 10 Amendments of the constitution were called? For the first 30 seconds or so all I got were blank stares. Then one guy said with hesitation "the... bill... of... rights???" At this point I knew that my second question was going to be interesting. I then ask "who can name 5 rights that are listed in the Bill of Rights"? (keep in mind that the 1st Amendment alone has 5)

    I got "Freedom of speech", "right to bear arms" and "fair and speedy trial" within the first 10 seconds but then.....they hit a wall. After some intense thinking the next two answers I got were......wait for it...wait..

    "the right to happiness"
    and
    " freedom of information act"

    Now I work with some folks that I wonder how they find their way home at the end of their shift. But in all fairness I also work with some very educated people. And some of these guys have college degrees. But yet the still had no clue to what rights they do or do not have. Is it no wonder we are going toward a police state? Is it no wonder that we lose a little bit more of our liberties as time goes on? The old saying goes "if you don't use it you lose it". Wouldn't our rights fit under this saying? Or imagine you are on trial (criminal or civil) and your rights have been violated. The jury must decide your fate but how will they know that your rights have been violated if they don't know what your rights are in the first place???

    Does anyone else find this disturbing?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I've been over this same conversation with people before. It's pretty astounding how little people know of their Rights.
    I have actually found that those with an education seem to be the worst of them. I'm guessing because the brainwashing has been completed.
    I once heard a college professor say to a student that it was her goal to make students realize how many of their Rights and privacies they were giving up for an illusion of safety. That made me pretty happy to hear.
    It's funny, when I look back just a few years and see how clueless I was to my Rights as well. I can remember being stopped multiple times by police just for walking down the street and the cop thought my friends and I were up to no good.
    Once we were stopped while walking to my friends apartment after school. The cop stopped us because one of us was carrying a hammer. My friend was currently enrolled in a shop class and had a tool belt slung over his shoulder. This led to all of us being detained while the cop ran ID's.
    Another time there was a group of about four of us walking after dark in the downtown area near our high school and again were were detained because we, "Looked suspicious."
    I thought one was required to show ID and comply with every LEO demand.
    I grew up afraid to even say the word gun as that could result in a school suspension. I grew up in Massachusetts and went to high school in Southern New Hampshire.
    Last edited by decklin; 12-14-2012 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Spelling
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    Sadly, most people have been taught WHAT to think, instead of HOW to think. They are also only given the "approved" curriculum, so exposure to things as radical as rights are generally either glossed over or ignored, and I'm extremely...skeptical...that it's accidental.

    What was it Hitler said about 7 year olds?...

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    At work the other day we were discussing an incident that happened in our state between a college student and LEO. Long story short, the student exercised his rights, cop get's pi$$ed off and then violates the students rights, student films the whole thing and the LEO gets fired. A few of my co-workers couldn't figure out what the LEO had done wrong (he did and illegal search in the kids dorm room)

    I felt this would be a good time to do a little "test" on my "peers". So out of the 7 or 8 guys standing around I first ask who knew what the first 10 Amendments of the constitution were called? For the first 30 seconds or so all I got were blank stares. Then one guy said with hesitation "the... bill... of... rights???" At this point I knew that my second question was going to be interesting. I then ask "who can name 5 rights that are listed in the Bill of Rights"? (keep in mind that the 1st Amendment alone has 5)

    I got "Freedom of speech", "right to bear arms" and "fair and speedy trial" within the first 10 seconds but then.....they hit a wall. After some intense thinking the next two answers I got were......wait for it...wait..

    "the right to happiness"
    and
    " freedom of information act"

    Now I work with some folks that I wonder how they find their way home at the end of their shift. But in all fairness I also work with some very educated people. And some of these guys have college degrees. But yet the still had no clue to what rights they do or do not have. Is it no wonder we are going toward a police state? Is it no wonder that we lose a little bit more of our liberties as time goes on? The old saying goes "if you don't use it you lose it". Wouldn't our rights fit under this saying? Or imagine you are on trial (criminal or civil) and your rights have been violated. The jury must decide your fate but how will they know that your rights have been violated if they don't know what your rights are in the first place???

    Does anyone else find this disturbing?
    What?! the cop got fired! Wow, that doesn't happen in my neck of the woods very often.

    Then try to have a talk with them about the 9th amendment and the fact that our rights are not "limited" or granted by a constitution. Deer in the headlight looks a lot of times.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    What?! the cop got fired! Wow, that doesn't happen in my neck of the woods very often.

    Then try to have a talk with them about the 9th amendment and the fact that our rights are not "limited" or granted by a constitution. Deer in the headlight looks a lot of times.
    The cop did get fired but it wasn't because he illegally search the kids room, it was because he shoved the kid. The police using force when no force is being used against them is IMHO enough to fire them, but I would like for his termination to also have been about violationing the kids rights.
    Last edited by self preservation; 12-16-2012 at 12:13 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  6. #6
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Sadly, most people have been taught WHAT to think, instead of HOW to think. They are also only given the "approved" curriculum, so exposure to things as radical as rights are generally either glossed over or ignored, and I'm extremely...skeptical...that it's accidental.

    What was it Hitler said about 7 year olds?...
    Try my little "test" yourself sometime. Ask your family, friends or co-workers to name 5...only 5 rights that they have. You will want to puke when they have no idea.


    “Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...they are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”

    ― Thomas Jefferson

    BTW. I have no idea what Hitler said. Do you care to educate me?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Try my little "test" yourself sometime. Ask your family, friends or co-workers to name 5...only 5 rights that they have. You will want to puke when they have no idea.


    “Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...they are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”

    ― Thomas Jefferson

    BTW. I have no idea what Hitler said. Do you care to educate me?
    I believe the quote is something to the effect of "Give me a child until the age of seven, and he will be mine forever." There is some speculation about whether Hitler actually said it or altered it from the original saying "Give me a child until the age of seven and I will show you the man." There are also quotes about his belief that you could not have a good soldier if they could think critically, thus, the children were to be indoctrinated, and removed as much as possible from the parents influence.

    And I sadly see the truth in your experiment; both sides of our family would fail when asked, and when my husband and I tried to explain some of these rights (in a police encounter related context, for example) the general consensus was "Oh, I'll just go along with it. They are the authority and must know what they're doing. I don't want to make waves."

    It's a very slow journey, but I think we're starting to make progress with them...it seems the most effective way is not to try and convince someone else of your philosophy, but simply to live it and let them ask their own questions when they are ready. You can't force a horse to drink, but you can certainly make him thirsty when he sees you drinking...

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    The cop did get fired but it wasn't because he illegally search the kids room, it was because he shoved the kid. The police using force when no force is being used against them is IMHO enough to fire them, but I would like for his termination to also have been about violationing the kids rights.
    They don't get dismissed for assault around here, matter of fact I think I have a recording of a deputy chief one Flo Simmon saying she won't second guess her officers use of force, even when the stop was illegal, and the force unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I believe the quote is something to the effect of "Give me a child until the age of seven, and he will be mine forever." There is some speculation about whether Hitler actually said it or altered it from the original saying "Give me a child until the age of seven and I will show you the man." There are also quotes about his belief that you could not have a good soldier if they could think critically, thus, the children were to be indoctrinated, and removed as much as possible from the parents influence.

    And I sadly see the truth in your experiment; both sides of our family would fail when asked, and when my husband and I tried to explain some of these rights (in a police encounter related context, for example) the general consensus was "Oh, I'll just go along with it. They are the authority and must know what they're doing. I don't want to make waves."

    It's a very slow journey, but I think we're starting to make progress with them...it seems the most effective way is not to try and convince someone else of your philosophy, but simply to live it and let them ask their own questions when they are ready. You can't force a horse to drink, but you can certainly make him thirsty when he sees you drinking...
    Especially among young people they are coming around, they have a wealth of info at their fingertips, they are learning what a crock our society and its "leadership" is.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I believe there was some question as to whether a 4th Amend violation occurred because most colleges have students sign agreements and waivers about searches of dorm rooms.
    I don't know for sure. I have heard that they sign a paper agreeing that admin can enter their room without consent but couldn't search without consent (or PC, warrant). Not sure of LEO, even if they work for the campus would be considered "admin" or not because a cop's a cop's regardless and one would assume that they are all bound by the USC.

    Someone quoted the UK student handbook in another thread. I'll see if I can find it.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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