Elementry School Shooting. Kids killed. Shooter dead.

The 2nd amend is about us being able to protect ourselves from the gov't....how does this incident relate to that? It doesn't.

Odd how so limited press coverage their was of actual photo and video allowed.

The cops kept everyone away and the press failed America by saying: OK, we won't try to get better pics and vids...the cops must have known the gunman was dead and there was no danger..the press should have asserted their rights but did not. They kept the press away which concerns me ... as far as a 1st amendment issue -- and the police can behave this for any "emergency". Yes, kids involved etc..1st amendment should trump this aspect.

I think the police overstepped their authority and the press just caved in ....

thebigsd said:

Kabukiman is not a cop...it's the name of a movie. Just saying...

A horrible tragedy no matter how you look at it? A sad day for our country. Of course the antis will take advantage of it, in fact, several members of Congress have already made statements regarding the need for more gun control. I don't understand how some people believe that getting rid of guns is the solution, if a guy is going to murder people, then I don't think he really gives a flying f**k about the gun laws.

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Yep.....
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1770077

beebobby said:

WTF is going on in this country? The idea that more guns make us safer isn't going to fly with most Americans after these kinds of incidences. I don't know what I, as a gun owner/enthusiast, can do or say to persuade folks that guns don't kill people when 18 children die.

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If there had been at least one staff member armed, perhaps the body count would have been lower. Oath Keepers is blaming the feds for it, and in a way they are right. They determined that schools are "gun free zones". Apparently, the feds forgot to tell all the nut jobs! What you can do as an owner/enthusiast is to educate folks that the gun is an inanimate object, and possesses no motivation of it's own. A gun only does the bidding of the person holding it. The guns didn't kill anybody, the shooter did. Pax...

The usual

The usual arguments, on both sides.

Each side can only see one causal factor.

Same set of facts. One side concludes: MGGLGB. The other side concludes: LGGMGB.

Add each side's displaced anger and paranoia and . . .

The system problem doesn't get solved. Doesn't even get thought about. System problem gets worse.



Key:

MGGLGB = More guns good, less guns bad!

LGGMGB = Less guns good, more guns bad!

My Question IS...

Who the hell buzzed that crazy S.O.B. into the Connecticut school? According to the reports, access is centrally controlled, and anyone entering the school has to be "buzzed in". The reports also said that the shooter was dressed like a SWAT team member and carrying three guns... including a long gun (that I'm assuming was an AR, since it was only described as a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle). Shouldn't the person with their finger on the buzzer have thought that looked a bit odd? Now there are 20 dead children, 20 grieving families, and thousands grieving for those families. God bless their innocent little souls. I'm hoping that there's a special room in hell for those who commit crimes against children. Pax...

davidmcbeth said:

The 2nd amend is about us being able to protect ourselves from the gov't....how does this incident relate to that? It doesn't.

Odd how so limited press coverage their was of actual photo and video allowed.

The cops kept everyone away and the press failed America by saying: OK, we won't try to get better pics and vids...the cops must have known the gunman was dead and there was no danger..the press should have asserted their rights but did not. They kept the press away which concerns me ... as far as a 1st amendment issue -- and the police can behave this for any "emergency". Yes, kids involved etc..1st amendment should trump this aspect.

I think the police overstepped their authority and the press just caved in ....

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There is no first amendment right to trample on crime scenes. why don't you go try to take that a court.

jesus some people in this country are strange...

Beretta92FSLady said:

Hmm, are we as firearm owners ready to acknowledge its easier to slaughter 27 people with a firearm than a knife? Im not stating we ought to restrict or ban firearms, just pointing out how nonsensicle it is to be climbing aboard your wagon right now.

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I don't see where anybody has argued that it isn't "easier". Easier has nothing to do with it - Molotov cocktails would be just as deadly and easier than a knife, so would a pipe bomb. Mental illness, evil intent and poor security procedures at our schools have everything to do with today's massacre. Pax...

Gil223 said:

Who the hell buzzed that crazy S.O.B. into the Connecticut school? According to the reports, access is centrally controlled, and anyone entering the school has to be "buzzed in". The reports also said that the shooter was dressed like a SWAT team member and carrying three guns... including a long gun (that I'm assuming was an AR, since it was only described as a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle). Shouldn't the person with their finger on the buzzer have thought that looked a bit odd? Now there are 20 dead children, 20 grieving families, and thousands grieving for those families. God bless their innocent little souls. I'm hoping that there's a special room in hell for those who commit crimes against children. Pax...

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A law enforcement source said three weapons were found at the scene: a Glock handgun, a SIG Sauer handgun and a .223 caliber Bushmaster rifle.

The two handguns were found inside the school and the rifle was found in the back of a car.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...combat-weapon-article-1.1220431#ixzz2F4WRXpZ4

Also he was said to have been known to the school administration - don't know in what capacity.

Gil223 said:

Who the hell buzzed that crazy S.O.B. into the Connecticut school? According to the reports, access is centrally controlled, and anyone entering the school has to be "buzzed in". The reports also said that the shooter was dressed like a SWAT team member and carrying three guns... including a long gun (that I'm assuming was an AR, since it was only described as a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle). Shouldn't the person with their finger on the buzzer have thought that looked a bit odd? Now there are 20 dead children, 20 grieving families, and thousands grieving for those families. God bless their innocent little souls. I'm hoping that there's a special room in hell for those who commit crimes against children. Pax...

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Assumptions: No weapon visible on visitor when buzzed in. Visitor was known or previously visited his mother at this school. May have been an AUDIO system ONLY!

Person activating the button letting this person in (assuming they are still living) will beat themselves up over and over on this while having NO CULPABILITY IN THE CRIME!!!!!!!!!!! While I share in the heart break at this horrific crime, the responsibility for it lays COMPLETELY upon the individual committing the crime and not on "lax gun laws" or ownership of fingers that pressed a buzzer button!

Beretta92FSLady said:

Naturally, fear-mongerring, Obama's going to grab our guns now, paranoid clingers unite. How about we wait a few hours, maybe first talk about how terrible this is...theres plenty of time to go on political diatribes about homeschooling and armed teachers. Get a freaking clue people.

This is a terrible loss for all families involved.

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+1,000,000,000,000

These are the most innocent and firearm, firebomb, or machete, it makes no difference. Next week we can argue what happened to society and morality, for the moment we should just grieve.

Beretta92FSLady said:

Naturally, fear-mongerring, Obama's going to grab our guns now, paranoid clingers unite. How about we wait a few hours, maybe first talk about how terrible this is...theres plenty of time to go on political diatribes about homeschooling and armed teachers. Get a freaking clue people.

This is a terrible loss for all families involved.

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You are right. NOT!

We need to get a clue?

There's plenty of time?

Are you ok?

We all now know where you stand, so how many children must die before we rescind this law?

How many people in general must die before we stop making gun-free zones?

We have people screaming for the ability to restrict law-abiding citizens access to firearms, and to abolish the Second Amendment -- people with "power." So when is the time to talk about what NEEDS to be done?

I am tired of listening to news reports where children are murdered because NOBODY WAS AROUND THAT COULD DEFEND THEM! Plain and simple, this will NOT stop until our teachers and other law-abiding citizens are able to carry in schools. Had a teacher or two been armed this would not have been anywhere near as bad as it was, if it would've even happened. These psycho people would not even attempt these murders if they knew they would be killed before they had the ability to kill innocent children!

The liberals can scream take this, do that, government is god all they want, but everything they say makes no sense to a person with a logical thought process.

We have laws that make murder illegal; that make assault illegal; that make battery illegal; that make carrying the tools this man used to kill with illegal on K-12 school property; that make abusing a child illegal; and on and on and on and on.

When will people realize that words on paper only stop the LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN from committing an act that has been deemed illegal?

We need physical deterrance, not more worthless legislation! Laws punish people after the act and are completely worthless.

If a lunatic is going to storm a school and kill innocent children a law will not stop them, as can be proven all throughout history! The only thing that will stop them are people with the ability to protect themselves while the act is occuring.

The time to stand up and demand these foolish laws rescinded is NOW, not later! I am tired of these worthless laws taking the lives of our children!

Gil223 said:

Who the hell buzzed that crazy S.O.B. into the Connecticut school? According to the reports, access is centrally controlled, and anyone entering the school has to be "buzzed in". The reports also said that the shooter was dressed like a SWAT team member and carrying three guns... including a long gun (that I'm assuming was an AR, since it was only described as a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle). Shouldn't the person with their finger on the buzzer have thought that looked a bit odd? Now there are 20 dead children, 20 grieving families, and thousands grieving for those families. God bless their innocent little souls. I'm hoping that there's a special room in hell for those who commit crimes against children. Pax...

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This article suggest that strict access does not start until after 9:30.

http://wtkr.com/2012/12/14/slain-connecticut-principal-just-implemented-new-security-measures/

In this article a parent who was at the school said AROUND 9:30 (could mean just before or after 9:30) she heard a loud pop pop pop.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html

That to me suggest that the shooter may have made it in just before the doors were locked. My question is what time does elementary school start there? My son's school starts at 8 if that was his school I'd be asking why the doors lock an hour and a half after school has started?!? If they want to secure the school from potentially unwanted visitors then the doors should have been locked right when school started.

Lasjayhawk said:

+1,000,000,000,000

These are the most innocent and firearm, firebomb, or machete, it makes no difference. Next week we can argue what happened to society and morality, for the moment we should just grieve.

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No Sir, the gun control crowd will not wait until people have calmed down and started thinking clearly again. They want to play off the raw emotion to make inroads they would never make when people are being rational. The Pro-Gun laws passed all over the country in the past few years show that. Therefore, we must be prepared to defend our Rights on a moments notice, especially in times of strife and grief when those with different beliefs would seek to seize the advantage.

Sundiver said:

No Sir, the gun control crowd will not wait until people have calmed down and started thinking clearly again. They want to play off the raw emotion to make inroads they would never make when people are being rational. The Pro-Gun laws passed all over the country in the past few years show that. Therefore, we must be prepared to defend our Rights on a moments notice, especially in times of strife and grief when those with different beliefs would seek to seize the advantage.

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Nope, I disagree. We are the "bigger man" and have what is right on our side. To everything there is a season.

RIP Little Ones

And now it is time for all parents to learn from this EVIL and keep their little ones close to them. Do NOT trust your children's safety to the government or anyone else!! That is YOUR responsibility.

Here's my thoughts...

To Newtown, Connecticut, our thoughts and prayers are with you in this time of tragedy, we mourn with you for your loss.

I just wish that the office staff had one or two handgun carriers, they could have stopped him (or pinned him down) at the front office before he got to the classroom. We all share your pain and grief at this tragedy, but blame the person not the tool used. You can't regulate or litigate crazy, but returned fire can and will stop crazy.

To those who are already screaming for more gun control from Obama, that only makes it easier and safer for the crazy bad guys out there.

Obama must speak up and require 10% of all teachers and 50% of administrative staff at all schools be armed and allocate federal funds for initial and annual refresher tactical training of those volunteers. Schools need the ability to respond in an instant to any active shooters that gain entrance to our kids schools.

A no weapons sign on a door or a anti-gun law will not stop evil or crazy, but good people will if given the chance.

Grapeshot said:

Disagree.

The inanimate tool bares no responsibility - by itself it has a value of 0 (zero) whether used for evil or good. One could substitute gasoline or propane in place of a gun in that "system" scenario. It is the use to which the individual exercises his control of it that is the determining factor.

For that the perpetrator is 100% responsible.

Otherwise vehicles (transportation to the school), gasoline for propulsion, and air for the tires becomes part of the "system." Again it is the use thereof by the BG that is 100%, solely responsible.

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I agree with Grapeshot. There were no guns available when Cain murdered Abel.

Lasjayhawk said:

Nope, I disagree. We are the "bigger man" and have what is right on our side. To everything there is a season.

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There is almost no such thing as reason divorced from emotion. Every action has an emotion connected to it. No, I mean that literally--try to think of one.

Our altitude lies in being right, not in being reasoned. Reason is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Being the most right, accomplishing the most good is the end.

As long as we do not defraud our listeners or lie to them, there is nothing wrong in operating while emotions are running high. While it is in front of people's faces may be the best time.

Citizen said:

There is almost no such thing as reason divorced from emotion. Every action has an emotion connected to it. No, I mean that literally--try to think of one.

Our altitude lies in being right, not in being reasoned. Reason is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Being the most right, accomplishing the most good is the end.

As long as we do not defraud our listeners or lie to them, there is nothing wrong in operating while emotions are running high. While it is in front of people's faces may be the best time.

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To me, reason and emotion together has the ability to consider and respond or be incontrol of one's temper, loss of reason and emotion is TEMPER and oft times results in an inappropriate level of response that is UNREASONABLE and NOT in control of one's temper.

I first heard this old quote from my long departed grandfather as related to me by my father when I was a young man, probably < 10 years of age. "A man without a temper is a poor excuse for a man! An man NOT IN CONTROL of his temper is worse off!"

I would agree with the old quote....

Citizen said:

There is almost no such thing as reason divorced from emotion. Every action has an emotion connected to it. No, I mean that literally--try to think of one.

Our altitude lies in being right, not in being reasoned. Reason is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Being the most right, accomplishing the most good is the end.

As long as we do not defraud our listeners or lie to them, there is nothing wrong in operating while emotions are running high. While it is in front of people's faces may be the best time.

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+1

I will not be denied my righteous indignation!


Curse me or stomp me, but do NOT mess with the children. They are more precious than life itself.