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Thread: Here Comes More Gun Control

  1. #1
    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    Here Comes More Gun Control

    This event, combined with our stupid news media that gives ultimate coverage to these shooters, have handed Obama the perfect stage. He sheds a tear...he mentions other mass shootings as examples of why this problem is on every corner...manages to include Chicago as one of the areas filled with "tragic shootings"...and ultimately says, "We're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics." (Bolding is mine.) It isn't too difficult to read between the lines on that one, is it? Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York already tossed in his $.02, "Calling for meaningful action' is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before." 38 days post-election and Obama is already running his personal agenda against gun owners and the 2nd amendment.
    Last edited by scm54449; 12-14-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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    Regular Member Snake161's Avatar
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    Well, its sad, but I don't feel as though I have to suffer because some loser 20 year old with mental problems decides to slaughter a bunch of kids. This would have happened with or without guns. Be it an axe, a baseball bat, a knife....you get the picture. In the end, the ONLY reason that politicians want to get rid of guns and why it is even mentioned is because it is the key to a free and prosperous society. TO HEAR THE PEOPLE IS TO FEAR THE PEOPLE. And this is what they want to eliminate; its simple. I don't plan on living in a "free" country that doesn't allow for me to protect myself, family and freedom from a villain, be it a psycho like this guy, or a government out of control (which is what we are heading towards very fast). It is simply leverage. And it seems as though it came at a perfect time for Obama. Funny how these things work.....conspiracy BS aside. The founding fathers knew that this was the key to freedom, to be feared and respected by your government, and it should not change either way. I don't think it will reach a point right now where they will attempt to disarm us, however I do think that a registration program will begin...and from their each and every crime that happens like this will slowly nudge them towards total disarmament. Happened in Europe and Australia. That's how they do it, in stages. Pull the proverbial wool over our eyes, so to speak. And by that time, we just won't care. Just like the UK. Because apparently, in this country, our overreaching government believes that punishing the lawful and innocent is now the way to be.
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    +1 to Snake161

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    The blame belong squarely on the head of the anti's who give us these unarmed victim zones and disarmed anybody that could have been armed and stopped this early on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The blame belong squarely on the head of the anti's who give us these unarmed victim zones and disarmed anybody that could have been armed and stopped this early on.
    One Teacher, One Gun, End of Problem...

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    Quote Originally Posted by firearms iinstuctor View Post
    the blame belong squarely on the head of the anti's who give us these unarmed victim zones and disarmed anybody that could have been armed and stopped this early on.
    this ^^

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Israel used to have a problem with terrorists coming in and shooting up their schools until they armed their teachers... problem solved. If there is blame to be assigned in this tragedy it belongs to the mental health community for letting this monster fall through the cracks.
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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    How many armed teachers do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    Israel used to have a problem with terrorists coming in and shooting up their schools until they armed their teachers... problem solved.
    How many armed teachers in the U.S. do you figure it would take to solve the problem, like the Israelis did? Do you have an estimate?

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Here Comes More Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    How many armed teachers in the U.S. do you figure it would take to solve the problem, like the Israelis did? Do you have an estimate?
    every single teacher.
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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    every single teacher.
    Pre-school, kindergarten, grade school, high school? College?

    Admins?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    every single teacher.
    Don't be ridiculous. There's no benefit to making people carry guns if they don't want to.

    Allowing those who do is that best that can be done. In the real world, anyway.

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    Regular Member siefly's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter how many teachers are armed. If there is a possibility that even some or even one might be armed it would certainly make a potential shooter go to easier pickings (posted business for example) or face death before he/she commits mass murder. As long as teachers and administrators are in a building that is full of potential targets and have no means to protect themselves this will continue. The blood is on the hands of the politicians who supported and signed the "gun free zone" law.
    They are the ones who made it possible for these types of acts to continue.

    Siefly

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT
    How many armed teachers in the U.S. do you figure it would take to solve the problem, like the Israelis did?
    All it takes is one... in the right place, at the right time, with the right tool & training.
    There could be one per school, there could be 100 per school, it doesn't matter as long as there's one in the right place at the right time.
    And the criminals would never know if the adult they're facing is that one.
    Sort of like how cc laws keep even the sheep safer 'cause the criminals never know for sure.
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    Make it voluntary, pay for training and to maintain efficiency,

    I would not be surprized that we would get a good number of staff to take up the offer.
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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The blame belong squarely on the head of the anti's who give us these unarmed victim zones and disarmed anybody that could have been armed and stopped this early on.

    ...and not to mention the mother of the shooter herself; for she is the one who left unsecured firearms within reach of her (knowingly)mentally unstable child...shame on her first.
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  16. #16
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    Here are some real statistics regarding school shootings

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    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    While its good to have a forum where we can share our frustrations, I believe now is not the appropriate time to indulge those emotions. The anti's have been waiting for an opportunity and the shootings in Connecticut may have tipped the balance in their favor. They have an ally in a media that refuses refuses to broadcast examples of firearms used in defense of life and family (unless they can somehow spin it to portray firearms ownership as evil and irresponsible). The shootings in Connecticut involve children and the "What About The CHILDREN!?!?!" mantra will now resonate with more parents in the nation than it did at the beginning of 2012.

    Personally, I believe now is the time to put more effort into finding research and facts about the ineffectiveness of gun control and to hunt for and collect examples of firearms used in the defense of children, single mothers, the physically disabled, and the elderly. We will need this information in conversations with acquaintances and communications to the legislature and the government. Letters filled with promises of, "I will vote you out of office!" will not get us the support and the votes we need to win the day. Here are a few examples I found with Google and 10 minutes of time at the keyboard.

    The Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy Review is hardly an example of a pro-second amendment periodical. Yet in January 2007 a national and international analysis of gun control came back with the following conclusion at http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...d.aWc&cad=rja:

    "Nevertheless, the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world."

    Personally, I kind of like pictures. Here is one showing the impact of the handgun ban and mandatory trigger locks in Washington D.C.:



    My point is it will take a great deal of information & effort to counter the wave of emotion and misinformation that is coming. My personal experience is it is far more difficult to change opinions based in emotion than it is to change opinions based on information. We have our work cut out for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchiron View Post
    ...and not to mention the mother of the shooter herself; for she is the one who left unsecured firearms within reach of her (knowingly)mentally unstable child...shame on her first.

    He wasn't a child he was a grown man.

    At 20 yoa I was a working LEO. I have known several 18 yoa working LEOs that were very responable in doing their job.

    No child maybe his mother treated him like one that could be the whole trouble there.
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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    scm54449 the graph in your proceeding post is attributed to what source since it is not part of the Harvard article you referenced?? so i might review the background data? tks

    wabbit

    ps: to put the article into perspective...leap of faith it was written mid to late 2006 and was published in the 2007 spring edition of the journal.

    pps: tho i find it quite interesting a Canadian PhD working in a Canadian University co authored the article...eh?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-16-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    He wasn't a child he was a grown man.

    At 20 yoa I was a working LEO. I have known several 18 yoa working LEOs that were very responable in doing their job.

    No child maybe his mother treated him like one that could be the whole trouble there.
    I'm 50, but still my mother's child; was my contextual meaning... I just hope that there are enough moderates that the right can form a rational-minded coalition with, to counter-balance the almost certain backlash from the ignorant antis' insane rhetoric.
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    And sit in the seats within.

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  21. #21
    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    scm54449 the graph in your proceeding post is attributed to what source since it is not part of the Harvard article you referenced?? so i might review the background data?
    The graph came from here: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Don't be ridiculous. There's no benefit to making people carry guns if they don't want to.

    Allowing those who do is that best that can be done. In the real world, anyway.
    They are the ones charged with teaching, guiding and protecting the children in their care. If they are not willing to fight for the children they don't need to be in a class room where their inability to use a gun endangers their students. We don't need more milquetoast pacifists in our teaching profession, we need men and women who can set an example to children that they can and should learn to protect themselves and be able to do so by setting a positive example.
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  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    They are the ones charged with teaching, guiding and protecting the children in their care. If they are not willing to fight for the children they don't need to be in a class room where their inability to use a gun endangers their students. We don't need more milquetoast pacifists in our teaching profession, we need men and women who can set an example to children that they can and should learn to protect themselves and be able to do so by setting a positive example.
    Excellent idea. We should immediately fire every single teacher who isn't comfortable with their own ability to safely use a firearm in a crowded classroom, because clearly every single such teacher must be a "milquetoast pacifist". We should then replace them with diehard militants eager to carry guns at all times. After all, it's impossible to understand why a country of diverse thought might want teachers of diverse personality types, with at least a few being interested in something other than militancy and self-defense.

    I wouldn't send my kids to your school. Frankly, your approach is no more pro-freedom than the brady bunch's. You can absolutely guarantee that in a free society, some people won't want to carry guns. I wouldn't want someone to carry if they don't trust themselves to do so. And to establish willingness to carry as an absolute criterion for teaching is ridiculous (there I go, forced to use that word again), back in the real world.

    I remember when the debate on this site was sophisticated: the envy of anti-gunners everywhere. Arguments and positions were not of the sort to be trivially discounted out of hand. Folks made realistic arguments even people on "the other side" had a hard time countering effectively. However, as it's become increasingly subject to the rabid, blind partisanship which defines the rest of American politics, it's become increasingly retarded, like the rest of American politics.

    "Oh yeah, let's just fire any teachers who don't want to carry guns because they're milquetoast pacifists." WTF is this puerile approach to political change, this comic book view of life? Are we 12?

    Folks, we're not going to win this battle (much less the war), by being even more emotional and less rational than the Brady Bunch, by being even more blindly partisan, by spouting even more needlessly divisive rhetoric. We have the better position. Reason, logic, and right are on our side. Let's act like it.
    Last edited by marshaul; 12-17-2012 at 12:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    How many armed teachers in the U.S. do you figure it would take to solve the problem, like the Israelis did? Do you have an estimate?
    Let's not worry about the number, let's worry about protecting our kids. The protection they have in place now as all can see, isn't working.

    JJC

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Let's not worry about the number, let's worry about protecting our kids. The protection they have in place now as all can see, isn't working.

    JJC
    I agree. Who cares if some teachers stay unarmed? So long as there is an armed presence.

    Most schools have a security officer of some sort. This person should be armed. In the Connecticut tragedy, the principal sacrificed her life trying to disarm the attacker. She should have been armed.

    Heck, a rifle in the principal's office (properly secured) would have saved quite a number of lives.

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