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Thread: SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

  1. #1
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    SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

    Can someone explain where I or We can Open carry with a CPL, without the extra ?
    I used to carry oc with cpl all over,
    If i can't carry oc anymore, then why do we need this web site ?

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    You can OC just about everywhere. Easier to answer your question this way. Everywhere you had to OC with a CPL before, you now have to conceal. You can OC everywhere else, unless it's a 234d zone, without a CPL, unless you have permission.
    Wrong again, Neil. Meijer is a 234d zone, but you can still OC there assuming SB 59 gets signed and goes into effect.

    You won't be able to OC in 28.425o zones (without written permission). Meijer is not a 28.425o zone.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Anywhere you could CC before you could still OC in (with CPL), anywhere that required you to OC (with CPL) due to CC being illegal, will be CC only with ECPL.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    OC allowed with CPL:

    750.234d

    OC not allowed:

    28.425o

    I'm still debating whether I will take the extra class or not. Since I've been OCing I've entered a CC PFZ a total of 3 or 4 times. A couple of times to vote, a bar for chicken wings once, and a large movie theater once. I'm not certain it's worth the extra expense for me.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    OC allowed with CPL:

    750.234d

    OC not allowed:

    28.425o

    I'm still debating whether I will take the extra class or not. Since I've been OCing I've entered a CC PFZ a total of 3 or 4 times. A couple of times to vote, a bar for chicken wings once, and a large movie theater once. I'm not certain it's worth the extra expense for me.

    Bronson
    especially since there shouldn't be extra expense.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    especially since there shouldn't be extra expense.
    Agreed but I have to work with the reality I'm given and in that reality there is now an extra expense. I will probably foot the bill for my girlfriend to go because the biggest reason she doesn't utilize her CPL now is she's afraid she'll forget and walk into a PFZ carrying. If this will help to get her carrying more often I'll suck it up and pay for it. If she'll only do the class if I do it too, I guess I'll be attending.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    You can OC just about everywhere. Easier to answer your question this way. Everywhere you had to OC with a CPL before, you now have to conceal. You can OC everywhere else, unless it's a 234d zone, without a CPL, unless you have permission.
    "You now have to conceal"

    Is this law? Or, just part of the SB59 thing I'm hearing about...

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    "You now have to conceal"

    Is this law? Or, just part of the SB59 thing I'm hearing about...
    If Snyder signs the bill it will become law.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  10. #10
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    Looks like the carry chart might be getting a facelift.
    I have heard at least one open carry advocate, which clearly I am not one, state that he is likely to just conceal carry all the time when this bill goes into affect.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    This POST

    Detroitbiker you caught me ! PS LOVE the pic thats cool !

    It was designed to get people on here to think & ask question's as to how this new bill will effect us all

    PS in the bill, Schools will have the optition to OPT out of allowing CONCEALED CARRY on their property isn't that NIIICCEE !!! no oc or cc
    So how many of you all knew that bit of info,
    I bet MOC leadership knew, after all they support the bill & even went before the State & testified how MOC likes this bill sb59

    Wonder how many other LOOPHOLES will be in that bil to restrict firearms on other properties ?

    ALL my post over the last week have been designed to get you guys & gals to think,
    NOT to troll,
    or act more important,
    or as a know it all
    or to attack anyone,
    but damm it think !

    I would NEVER agree to any BILL that restrict's the RIGHT of OPEN CARRY !

    MOC decided that Concealed carry & politic's is more important than open carry.

    So is MOC now the new MCC shold they change their name ?

    I am only posting what other people are thinking !
    Or what other people have said to me about this situation !
    Last edited by mastiff69; 12-15-2012 at 10:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Detroitbiker you caught me ! PS LOVE the pic thats cool !

    Yeah, but he's gonna need a bigger boat.

    It was designed to get people on here to think & ask question's as to how this new bill will effect us all

    No point expanding on that when it's clear the stance that many have taken.

    PS in the bill, Schools will have the optition to OPT out of allowing CONCEALED CARRY on their property isn't that NIIICCEE !!! no oc or cc
    So how many of you all knew that bit of info,
    I bet MOC leadership knew, after all they support the bill & even went before the State & testified how MOC likes this bill sb59

    Under SB59 (28.425o), the option to prohibit carry (CC) extends to private property. Not all schools are privately owned. I get your drift tho.

    Wonder how many other LOOPHOLES will be in that bil to restrict firearms on other properties ?

    They will have to pass it so we know what's in it. Oh wait....

    ALL my post over the last week have been designed to get you guys & gals to think,
    NOT to troll,
    or act more important,
    or as a know it all
    or to attack anyone,
    but damm it think !

    I would NEVER agree to any BILL that restrict's the RIGHT of OPEN CARRY !

    Nor would I, but sadly, the wolves prevailed - they have outnumbered the lambs.

    MOC decided that Concealed carry & politic's is more important than open carry.

    I don't believe that's entirely true.

    So is MOC now the new MCC shold they change their name ?

    I am only posting what other people are thinking !
    Or what other people have said to me about this situation !
    Blue


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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Detroitbiker you caught me ! PS LOVE the pic thats cool !

    It was designed to get people on here to think & ask question's as to how this new bill will effect us all

    PS in the bill, Schools will have the optition to OPT out of allowing CONCEALED CARRY on their property isn't that NIIICCEE !!! no oc or cc
    So how many of you all knew that bit of info,
    I bet MOC leadership knew, after all they support the bill & even went before the State & testified how MOC likes this bill sb59

    Wonder how many other LOOPHOLES will be in that bil to restrict firearms on other properties ?

    ALL my post over the last week have been designed to get you guys & gals to think,
    NOT to troll,
    or act more important,
    or as a know it all
    or to attack anyone,
    but damm it think !

    I would NEVER agree to any BILL that restrict's the RIGHT of OPEN CARRY !

    MOC decided that Concealed carry & politic's is more important than open carry.

    So is MOC now the new MCC shold they change their name ?

    I am only posting what other people are thinking !
    Or what other people have said to me about this situation !
    Wrong. The bill only allows PRIVATE PROPERTY owners (and colleges) to "opt out" which they could ALREADY, nothing changes.

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Detroitbiker you caught me ! PS LOVE the pic thats cool !

    It was designed to get people on here to think & ask question's as to how this new bill will effect us all

    PS in the bill, Schools will have the optition to OPT out of allowing CONCEALED CARRY on their property isn't that NIIICCEE !!! no oc or cc
    Wrong, K-12 can not opt out. Universitites can creat ordinances to control firearms...maybe. But that's another issue. AND YOU will be able to OC in the places listed in the statute with written permission.

    So how many of you all knew that bit of info,
    I bet MOC leadership knew, after all they support the bill & even went before the State & testified how MOC likes this bill sb59

    Wonder how many other LOOPHOLES will be in that bil to restrict firearms on other properties ?

    ALL my post over the last week have been designed to get you guys & gals to think,
    NOT to troll,
    or act more important,
    or as a know it all
    or to attack anyone,
    but damm it think !

    I would NEVER agree to any BILL that restrict's the RIGHT of OPEN CARRY !

    MOC decided that Concealed carry & politic's is more important than open carry.

    So is MOC now the new MCC shold they change their name ?

    I am only posting what other people are thinking !
    Or what other people have said to me about this situation !
    My commnets in red.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    My commnets in red.
    realistically what place will give permission? If they do give you permission and something happened I suspect they could be held liable for that.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  16. #16
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    realistically what place will give permission? If they do give you permission and something happened I suspect they could be held liable for that.
    What kind of restaurant like Applebee's will let you carry? They used to be a PFZ but it seems restaurants like them typically don't post signs (some do). I'm sure we'll see a few more signs especially because all they keep talking about is "opting out". But they could post signs regardless.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    What kind of restaurant like Applebee's will let you carry? They used to be a PFZ but it seems restaurants like them typically don't post signs (some do). I'm sure we'll see a few more signs especially because all they keep talking about is "opting out". But they could post signs regardless.
    Since when was a place like Applebee's a pfz for a cpl holder?

    Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    What kind of restaurant like Applebee's will let you carry? They used to be a PFZ but it seems restaurants like them typically don't post signs (some do). I'm sure we'll see a few more signs especially because all they keep talking about is "opting out". But they could post signs regardless.
    ?????
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    ?????
    ????? huh?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: SO, Where can I oc with a CPL, ( without the enhancement)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    ????? huh?
    Applebees makes most of their income from the sales of food (I asked) The only time Applebees was a pfz was when the CPL law first passed and ALL licensees selling liquor by the glass were "CC prohibited" under the law. That was changed.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  21. #21
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Sorry I'm now realizing he must be talking about permission to OC there. When he said he would give permission I thought he was referring to current PFZs posting "no gun" signs. I was making a reference to when concealed carry was illegal in places like Applebees that served liquor by the glass for on premises consumption. When it was legalized they didn't just start posting "no gun" signs.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    realistically what place will give permission? If they do give you permission and something happened I suspect they could be held liable for that.
    I think it's very realistic since I have had it done. I'm sure if you were a regular or knew the manager you could get written permission. Also there are many pro-gun business owners that might do it. Try to look at the glass as half full for a change.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I think it's very realistic since I have had it done. I'm sure if you were a regular or knew the manager you could get written permission. Also there are many pro-gun business owners that might do it. Try to look at the glass as half full for a change.
    I do, I just think that this law will take the glass from 4/7th full to half full.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  24. #24
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    Well at least my post invigerated thought !

    So my next question? ( will sb59 allow you to still Oc with a cpl on PFZ's) ( or will it stop you from OCing on PFZ's)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Well at least my post invigerated thought !

    So my next question? ( will sb59 allow you to still Oc with a cpl on PFZ's) ( or will it stop you from OCing on PFZ's)
    Of course no one will carry in a pfz with a cpl, that is just a loophole after all.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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