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Thread: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

  1. #1
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    Exclamation OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Here is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuLgO...ature=youtu.be
    I know I,m preaching to the choir.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

    PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
    "I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
    The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
    "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
    The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
    "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
    The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
    "I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

    PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
    "I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
    The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
    "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
    The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
    "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
    The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
    "I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."

    Good choice on his part not to fire, due to innocents behind BG!


    So, why did he leave his position of cover/concealment and move to a different location?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So, why did he leave his position of cover/concealment and move to a different location?
    His taco was ready at the food court? Hey, ya gotta eat them fresh !

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    There will be those when the need arises that are armed and will take the shot and those who will not.
    In this case the shooter ended his own life stopping the threat to others.
    As to the concept of seeing something or someone move behind him and was concerned of hitting an innocent, then one needs to take a kneeling position and take the shot, move to one side eliminating the possibility of hitting another and most of all, have the confidence in your abilities to get the shot as you do not know if they will stop or take more lives.

    I rack this one along with the Tacoma Mall Shooter, failed.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    There will be those when the need arises that are armed and will take the shot and those who will not.
    In this case the shooter ended his own life stopping the threat to others.
    As to the concept of seeing something or someone move behind him and was concerned of hitting an innocent, then one needs to take a kneeling position and take the shot, move to one side eliminating the possibility of hitting another and most of all, have the confidence in your abilities to get the shot as you do not know if they will stop or take more lives.

    I rack this one along with the Tacoma Mall Shooter, failed.
    Bigdave, you're idiocy is showing. This wasn't a fail by any standard. The young man drew his weapon and aimed it and the threat ended. He showed good judgement. Taking a knee is all well and good, but it's not going to keep you from missing in a combat situation. There are too many variables. He made right choice. I'm glad he didn't try to sling lead in the killers general direction. More people could have been shot, and he may still have missed the killer. Defence is not a game, when you shoot someone they don't respawn. So take it very seriously.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    DamonK clearly you did not watch the video and heard that after he had his sights on the shooter and thought he seen someone in the background he retreated to a store and left the shooter to his own to make his choice again to kill someone else or end his life, Nick Meli played no role in stopping this threat, all the talk is just that talk in trying to save face in the face of danger.

    He stated he was afraid to take the shot which shows a lack of confidence in his abilities, can you make a head shot at 20ft, 30ft, upper torso 25ft etc etc, can you hit what you put your sights on with out a doubt? You need to or otherwise you will be dropping down your gun and retreating everytime.

    DamonK keep your immaturity to the playground for the other kiddies.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.
    There is no nit picking here, plain and simple, clear and present threat to all in the area, having the confidence and ability to take that tough shot will divide those who do and those who just talk the talk.

    I am not debating the issue of it being the right decision for him and his abilities but it is not a choice I would have made.

    This is also in light that there is a certain percentage that carry daily and talk the talk but when it comes down to it, will not act and if you will not act then why carry at all?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    it seems cut and dry that he bailed and is now coming up a story to cover up his cowardice. He is lucky that the guy killed himself and didn't decide to continue shooting people.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.
    +1

    This young man actually had the courage not to fire, when he thought others may be in danger, but his very action of drawing and exposing himself to danger, may have been the trigger for the shooter to end his own life.

    I say he showed great restraint and made a choice only he could make knowing and feeling all the parameters he felt. To judge someone harshly for not killing someone is fairly disturbing, and assumes your feeling on the matter is the superior feeling on the matter, what megalomania.

    We now have an example to point to the anti's how carrying a gun won't cause shoot outs and the fake wild west scenario's that they imagined occurred.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    we can judge and comment all day on this; bottom line is none of us were there. Maybe this all happened in a few seconds and by the time he made a decision, the shooter took care of himself. There's a million what if's here.

    I say good on him for his judgement. If he'd shot and hit someone else, there would be one more needless death. You can train and train all day but missing with a handgun is not hard even for the best shots under duress. You lose fine motor coordination when the adrenaline is going. The kid is 22, I've seen older and well trained soldiers not fire their weapon in combat, I wouldn't go as far as to call him a coward. Most folks will never know if they could pull the trigger or not.

    But I'll play along; with the limited info we have, sounds like I might have bum-rushed the idiot to close the distance while he was fumbling trying to do some retarded rendition of SPORTS on his AR. Or like said, move to gain a clear backstop and blaze away. If I can't get a shot on someone I'm trying to get, you can bet I'm gonna move to where I can!! Blam! bye bye psycho.

    what's most disturbing is that this will never get any light from mainstream media and will go unnoticed.

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    Re: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Dave, were you there? No? Then you don't know the situation first hand. You also don't know his mindset or training level. You just assumed. And in doing so, made an ass out of yourself and no one else.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Comparing murder with justifiable homicide is very liberal thinking and attempt to call someone brave when poised to ensure no one else would be harmed and choose to run and hide, that is not being brave be it in civilian or military life as they are labeled as cowards.

    No one needs to be there, at that moment in time to have an opinion on the shooting of innocent people and their responses.
    Training, he showed no training, otherwise he would have stopped the threat, knowing his capabilities and have the confidence to engage the threat. If it was not a clear shot then move to engage as you heard he was trying to clear a jammed rifle and as another suggest bum rush him. Plainly he is now trying to justify not acting.
    Anyone of you, put yourself in the position behind a pillar and could take a shot to stop a murdered while he was fumbling around trying to clear a jam, would you take the shot?
    If you choose not to and he continued to kill more people would you still feel brave as some suggest in this thread?

    As with any other story being reported, we discuss what is known and basically how the law applies and sometimes tactics or position, this one is no different. If you want to be a coward and tell yourself you are brave for not taking a shot, well that is your choice and a path I and others would not have taken.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    it seems cut and dry that he bailed and is now coming up a story to cover up his cowardice. He is lucky that the guy killed himself and didn't decide to continue shooting people.
    From your statement you must be an experienced gunfighter because only a fool would talk sh@# with nothing to back it up.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Here we have a forum for the promotion of open carry, carry rights and making it the norm. While many or most will tout that it is for self defense and we cannot wait for cops to respond or that law enforcement are all corrupt and against them and then when a incident is thrown in front of them, some will cower and claim or support the claim as good job, you made the right choice, attaboy when they turn and run when an active threat is right in front of them and those who will take action and stop the threat then and there.

    Lack of training? Lack of Practice?, Confidence?, Ability? If you fall into one of these, one must asked Why Do You Carry? To just make a statement? Or look at me? Or to actually defend yourself and those in your presence when forced into an incident?
    Not everyone has training and still have the confidence and ability to end the threat but have the mind set of not being a victim or to let others come to harm, clearly we have both that walk opposite sides of the line.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Here we have a forum for the promotion of open carry, carry rights and making it the norm. While many or most will tout that it is for self defense and we cannot wait for cops to respond or that law enforcement are all corrupt and against them and then when a incident is thrown in front of them, some will cower and claim or support the claim as good job, you made the right choice, attaboy when they turn and run when an active threat is right in front of them and those who will take action and stop the threat then and there.

    Lack of training? Lack of Practice?, Confidence?, Ability? If you fall into one of these, one must asked Why Do You Carry? To just make a statement? Or look at me? Or to actually defend yourself and those in your presence when forced into an incident?
    Not everyone has training and still have the confidence and ability to end the threat but have the mind set of not being a victim or to let others come to harm, clearly we have both that walk opposite sides of the line.
    I have one simple question for you Dave. Have you ever been directly engaged in a firefight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    From your statement you must be an experienced gunfighter because only a fool would talk sh@# with nothing to back it up.
    I don't have to have anything to back it up if you read the story he pretty much bailed, don't have to be an experienced gun fighter to read but since it seems like your eyes are tired. "Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision." it's great that he didn't have to shoot, but he still bailed when he went from cover to hiding in a store.
    Last edited by ApacheBunny; 12-17-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

  19. #19
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    I have one simple question for you Dave. Have you ever been directly engaged in a firefight?

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Yes I have had a gun pulled on a friend and myself while sitting in a vehicle when we were not able to lawfully have one and it was all over stupidity of my friend trying to collect a betting debt after a pool game.
    And oh I don't know does having mortars blowing up around you and rounds popping with in feet of you, count?
    Yes I have had people in my sights and finger on the trigger and the threat was stopped before having to shoot but I did not run and hide but it seems that is getting to be your preferred choice.

    This has little to do with what I have presented here, I know it is an attempt to derail the topic at hand but I would not expect less from you at this point.

    If you or anyone is going to carry explore the mind set, become knowledgeable and confident you can hit what you are aiming at.
    There are good training facilities around the Puget Sound that will provide instruction and hands on for engaging targets that are moving or while you are on the move, shooting from different position such as standing, kneeling, on the ground with cover and with out to low light and no light.
    There are numerous people who effective defend themselves with out it but the do have the mindset of not being a victim though there is no doubt that civilian training will help and different then military or police training.
    Last edited by BigDave; 12-17-2012 at 02:36 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yes I have had a gun pulled on a friend and myself while sitting in a vehicle when we were not able to lawfully have one and it was all over stupidity of my friend trying to collect a betting debt after a pool game.
    And oh I don't know does having mortars blowing up around you and rounds popping with in feet of you, count?
    Yes I have had people in my sights and finger on the trigger and the threat was stopped before having to shoot but I did not run and hide but it seems that is getting to be your preferred choice.

    This has little to do with what I have presented here, I know it is an attempt to derail the topic at hand but I would not expect less from you at this point.

    If you or anyone is going to carry explore the mind set, become knowledgeable and confident you can hit what you are aiming at.
    There are good training facilities around the Puget Sound that will provide instruction and hands on for engaging targets that are moving or while you are on the move, shooting from different position such as standing, kneeling, on the ground with cover and with out to low light and no light.
    There are numerous people who effective defend themselves with out it but the do have the mindset of not being a victim though there is no doubt that civilian training will help and different then military or police training.
    No Dave, that's not a firefight. There is a big difference between the two. So again, everything that you've said is based on assumptions. You weren't there nor have you ever been in a similar situation. The man said that he didn't feel that he had a clear shot. So be it. Your blathering on about how you would have done it better is of no use to anyone and obnoxious to those of us that have experienced situations like this.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    No Dave, that's not a firefight. There is a big difference between the two. So again, everything that you've said is based on assumptions. You weren't there nor have you ever been in a similar situation. The man said that he didn't feel that he had a clear shot. So be it. Your blathering on about how you would have done it better is of no use to anyone and obnoxious to those of us that have experienced situations like this.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    So you are saying you would have not taken the shot when presented? not knowing if he was going to continue to take lives but run and hide in a store shivering and praying he does not come after you? Clearly you have a connection with someone as cowardly as this ???
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  22. #22
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    So you are saying you would have not taken the shot when presented? not knowing if he was going to continue to take lives but run and hide in a store shivering and praying he does not come after you? Clearly you have a connection with someone as cowardly as this ???
    I'm not saying either. I'm saying that neither of us were there and therefore can't know all the variables that were presented in that situation. Me personally, in times past in a somewhat comparable situation(but in a combat zone) I did move closer under cover to remove the threat. Mind you that we were on a COP which was considered somewhat secure so I had no body armor on and was only carrying my M9 at the time. But that was that situation, not this one. As someone who has successfully taken down an assailant carrying an assault rifle (ak-74) with a handgun, I was scared out of my friggin mind and could have easily been killed. I just got VERY lucky.

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  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    I'm not saying either. I'm saying that neither of us were there and therefore can't know all the variables that were presented in that situation. Me personally, in times past in a somewhat comparable situation(but in a combat zone) I did move closer under cover to remove the threat. Mind you that we were on a COP which was considered somewhat secure so I had no body armor on and was only carrying my M9 at the time. But that was that situation, not this one. As someone who has successfully taken down an assailant carrying an assault rifle (ak-74) with a handgun, I was scared out of my friggin mind and could have easily been killed. I just got VERY lucky.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Being scared is not being cowardly, ones actions will determine that.
    What I have posted here is what my position is as what anyone has posted and it will be up to each who read it to have their own response for their own reasons but if one has the opportunity as he stated he did, front sight on his head while he was behind a pillar and the perp was trying to clear a jammed rifle is not a hero as the perp could have very well went on to continue his massacre of the innocent.
    You cannot deny either that taking a shot at someone can be done from many position changing it trajectory and protecting others from missed shot/s.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Being scared is not being cowardly, ones actions will determine that.
    What I have posted here is what my position is as what anyone has posted and it will be up to each who read it to have their own response for their own reasons but if one has the opportunity as he stated he did, front sight on his head while he was behind a pillar and the perp was trying to clear a jammed rifle is not a hero as the perp could have very well went on to continue his massacre of the innocent.
    You cannot deny either that taking a shot at someone can be done from many position changing it trajectory and protecting others from missed shot/s.
    Thaaaaaaaank you, someone else who thinks he just ran for himself, and more people could of died because of his cowardice though I am glad they didn't. they didn't mention it but sound's like he left his friend and her baby there on the floor. Maybe he saw something he liked in the store who knows.
    Last edited by ApacheBunny; 12-17-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: grammar nazi I am yes
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

  25. #25
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    This type of thread really ticks me off.

    OK. Does OR postings laws carry the weight of law? I donít know, AND I donít care.

    This young lad was carrying in a posted business, the mall. Therefore, one would assume, that if he had the Ďstonesí to carry there, he would also have the Ďstonesí to make a critical decision when and if the time came. From his so called story (and video) even though he chose NOT to take the shot, in a fluid environment, that position WOULD have changed. A shot would have presented itself.

    What I find interesting is there is no backup evidence, either in person, or security video that this young lad WAS EVEN THERE. We are left with just his word.

    Even though Iím in AZ, I could have made the same claim as he, in OR, and accomplished the same headlines, in OR.

    BigDave and I have locked horns on numerous occasions, on numerous subjects, and we continue to disagree. However, on this, he is absolutely right.

    So.....would anyone care to PROVE me wrong on this?

    Is there any security video?

    Are there any police reports. If he actually was there, and drew his gun, someone would have noticed and it would be in a report somewhere.

    So, I donít think think this young lad was even there, let alone drew a weapon. He is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

    Chris

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