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OT but I don,t care every one needs to see this

BigDave

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http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."
 

JoeSparky

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http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."


Good choice on his part not to fire, due to innocents behind BG!


So, why did he leave his position of cover/concealment and move to a different location?
 

BigDave

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There will be those when the need arises that are armed and will take the shot and those who will not.
In this case the shooter ended his own life stopping the threat to others.
As to the concept of seeing something or someone move behind him and was concerned of hitting an innocent, then one needs to take a kneeling position and take the shot, move to one side eliminating the possibility of hitting another and most of all, have the confidence in your abilities to get the shot as you do not know if they will stop or take more lives.

I rack this one along with the Tacoma Mall Shooter, failed.
 

DamonK

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There will be those when the need arises that are armed and will take the shot and those who will not.
In this case the shooter ended his own life stopping the threat to others.
As to the concept of seeing something or someone move behind him and was concerned of hitting an innocent, then one needs to take a kneeling position and take the shot, move to one side eliminating the possibility of hitting another and most of all, have the confidence in your abilities to get the shot as you do not know if they will stop or take more lives.

I rack this one along with the Tacoma Mall Shooter, failed.

Bigdave, you're idiocy is showing. This wasn't a fail by any standard. The young man drew his weapon and aimed it and the threat ended. He showed good judgement. Taking a knee is all well and good, but it's not going to keep you from missing in a combat situation. There are too many variables. He made right choice. I'm glad he didn't try to sling lead in the killers general direction. More people could have been shot, and he may still have missed the killer. Defence is not a game, when you shoot someone they don't respawn. So take it very seriously.

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BigDave

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DamonK clearly you did not watch the video and heard that after he had his sights on the shooter and thought he seen someone in the background he retreated to a store and left the shooter to his own to make his choice again to kill someone else or end his life, Nick Meli played no role in stopping this threat, all the talk is just that talk in trying to save face in the face of danger.

He stated he was afraid to take the shot which shows a lack of confidence in his abilities, can you make a head shot at 20ft, 30ft, upper torso 25ft etc etc, can you hit what you put your sights on with out a doubt? You need to or otherwise you will be dropping down your gun and retreating everytime.

DamonK keep your immaturity to the playground for the other kiddies.
 

massivedesign

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Olympia, Washington, USA
This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.
 

BigDave

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This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.

There is no nit picking here, plain and simple, clear and present threat to all in the area, having the confidence and ability to take that tough shot will divide those who do and those who just talk the talk.

I am not debating the issue of it being the right decision for him and his abilities but it is not a choice I would have made.

This is also in light that there is a certain percentage that carry daily and talk the talk but when it comes down to it, will not act and if you will not act then why carry at all?
 

sudden valley gunner

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This one is so easy to nit pick from an armchair. He was the one there, he was the only one who saw what he saw.... Until we are in that position, we don't have a clue.

+1

This young man actually had the courage not to fire, when he thought others may be in danger, but his very action of drawing and exposing himself to danger, may have been the trigger for the shooter to end his own life.

I say he showed great restraint and made a choice only he could make knowing and feeling all the parameters he felt. To judge someone harshly for not killing someone is fairly disturbing, and assumes your feeling on the matter is the superior feeling on the matter, what megalomania.

We now have an example to point to the anti's how carrying a gun won't cause shoot outs and the fake wild west scenario's that they imagined occurred.
 

aa1911

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Yelm, WA
we can judge and comment all day on this; bottom line is none of us were there. Maybe this all happened in a few seconds and by the time he made a decision, the shooter took care of himself. There's a million what if's here.

I say good on him for his judgement. If he'd shot and hit someone else, there would be one more needless death. You can train and train all day but missing with a handgun is not hard even for the best shots under duress. You lose fine motor coordination when the adrenaline is going. The kid is 22, I've seen older and well trained soldiers not fire their weapon in combat, I wouldn't go as far as to call him a coward. Most folks will never know if they could pull the trigger or not.

But I'll play along; with the limited info we have, sounds like I might have bum-rushed the idiot to close the distance while he was fumbling trying to do some retarded rendition of SPORTS on his AR. Or like said, move to gain a clear backstop and blaze away. If I can't get a shot on someone I'm trying to get, you can bet I'm gonna move to where I can!! Blam! bye bye psycho.

what's most disturbing is that this will never get any light from mainstream media and will go unnoticed.
 

DamonK

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Dave, were you there? No? Then you don't know the situation first hand. You also don't know his mindset or training level. You just assumed. And in doing so, made an ass out of yourself and no one else.

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BigDave

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Comparing murder with justifiable homicide is very liberal thinking and attempt to call someone brave when poised to ensure no one else would be harmed and choose to run and hide, that is not being brave be it in civilian or military life as they are labeled as cowards.

No one needs to be there, at that moment in time to have an opinion on the shooting of innocent people and their responses.
Training, he showed no training, otherwise he would have stopped the threat, knowing his capabilities and have the confidence to engage the threat. If it was not a clear shot then move to engage as you heard he was trying to clear a jammed rifle and as another suggest bum rush him. Plainly he is now trying to justify not acting.
Anyone of you, put yourself in the position behind a pillar and could take a shot to stop a murdered while he was fumbling around trying to clear a jam, would you take the shot?
If you choose not to and he continued to kill more people would you still feel brave as some suggest in this thread?

As with any other story being reported, we discuss what is known and basically how the law applies and sometimes tactics or position, this one is no different. If you want to be a coward and tell yourself you are brave for not taking a shot, well that is your choice and a path I and others would not have taken.
 

decklin

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it seems cut and dry that he bailed and is now coming up a story to cover up his cowardice. He is lucky that the guy killed himself and didn't decide to continue shooting people.

From your statement you must be an experienced gunfighter because only a fool would talk sh@# with nothing to back it up.
 

BigDave

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Here we have a forum for the promotion of open carry, carry rights and making it the norm. While many or most will tout that it is for self defense and we cannot wait for cops to respond or that law enforcement are all corrupt and against them and then when a incident is thrown in front of them, some will cower and claim or support the claim as good job, you made the right choice, attaboy when they turn and run when an active threat is right in front of them and those who will take action and stop the threat then and there.

Lack of training? Lack of Practice?, Confidence?, Ability? If you fall into one of these, one must asked Why Do You Carry? To just make a statement? Or look at me? Or to actually defend yourself and those in your presence when forced into an incident?
Not everyone has training and still have the confidence and ability to end the threat but have the mind set of not being a victim or to let others come to harm, clearly we have both that walk opposite sides of the line.
 

DamonK

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Here we have a forum for the promotion of open carry, carry rights and making it the norm. While many or most will tout that it is for self defense and we cannot wait for cops to respond or that law enforcement are all corrupt and against them and then when a incident is thrown in front of them, some will cower and claim or support the claim as good job, you made the right choice, attaboy when they turn and run when an active threat is right in front of them and those who will take action and stop the threat then and there.

Lack of training? Lack of Practice?, Confidence?, Ability? If you fall into one of these, one must asked Why Do You Carry? To just make a statement? Or look at me? Or to actually defend yourself and those in your presence when forced into an incident?
Not everyone has training and still have the confidence and ability to end the threat but have the mind set of not being a victim or to let others come to harm, clearly we have both that walk opposite sides of the line.

I have one simple question for you Dave. Have you ever been directly engaged in a firefight?

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ApacheBunny

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Steptoe, WA (wtf is that!?)
From your statement you must be an experienced gunfighter because only a fool would talk sh@# with nothing to back it up.
I don't have to have anything to back it up if you read the story he pretty much bailed, don't have to be an experienced gun fighter to read but since it seems like your eyes are tired. "Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision." it's great that he didn't have to shoot, but he still bailed when he went from cover to hiding in a store.
 
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BigDave

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I have one simple question for you Dave. Have you ever been directly engaged in a firefight?

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Yes I have had a gun pulled on a friend and myself while sitting in a vehicle when we were not able to lawfully have one and it was all over stupidity of my friend trying to collect a betting debt after a pool game.
And oh I don't know does having mortars blowing up around you and rounds popping with in feet of you, count?
Yes I have had people in my sights and finger on the trigger and the threat was stopped before having to shoot but I did not run and hide but it seems that is getting to be your preferred choice.

This has little to do with what I have presented here, I know it is an attempt to derail the topic at hand but I would not expect less from you at this point.

If you or anyone is going to carry explore the mind set, become knowledgeable and confident you can hit what you are aiming at.
There are good training facilities around the Puget Sound that will provide instruction and hands on for engaging targets that are moving or while you are on the move, shooting from different position such as standing, kneeling, on the ground with cover and with out to low light and no light.
There are numerous people who effective defend themselves with out it but the do have the mindset of not being a victim though there is no doubt that civilian training will help and different then military or police training.
 
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DamonK

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Yes I have had a gun pulled on a friend and myself while sitting in a vehicle when we were not able to lawfully have one and it was all over stupidity of my friend trying to collect a betting debt after a pool game.
And oh I don't know does having mortars blowing up around you and rounds popping with in feet of you, count?
Yes I have had people in my sights and finger on the trigger and the threat was stopped before having to shoot but I did not run and hide but it seems that is getting to be your preferred choice.

This has little to do with what I have presented here, I know it is an attempt to derail the topic at hand but I would not expect less from you at this point.

If you or anyone is going to carry explore the mind set, become knowledgeable and confident you can hit what you are aiming at.
There are good training facilities around the Puget Sound that will provide instruction and hands on for engaging targets that are moving or while you are on the move, shooting from different position such as standing, kneeling, on the ground with cover and with out to low light and no light.
There are numerous people who effective defend themselves with out it but the do have the mindset of not being a victim though there is no doubt that civilian training will help and different then military or police training.

No Dave, that's not a firefight. There is a big difference between the two. So again, everything that you've said is based on assumptions. You weren't there nor have you ever been in a similar situation. The man said that he didn't feel that he had a clear shot. So be it. Your blathering on about how you would have done it better is of no use to anyone and obnoxious to those of us that have experienced situations like this.

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