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Thread: Let's Be Proactive Here

  1. #1
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    Let's Be Proactive Here

    I don't think it's realistic to hire enough police officers to guard each school building in the state. I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent. I have volunteered to stand at the door to a school here in my district. It's not much but if we, as responsible firearm owners, don't step up to the plate here, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan F. View Post
    I don't think it's realistic to hire enough police officers to guard each school building in the state. I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent. I have volunteered to stand at the door to a school here in my district. It's not much but if we, as responsible firearm owners, don't step up to the plate here, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
    Its an idea; you are to be commended. Do we know that the shooter always enters through the front door? Or, seeing you, finds another route in?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Good point. At our schools the students can't enter through all the doors. There is a degree of acess control. It's an idea that may need some engineering to be practical.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan F. View Post
    I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent.
    My understanding is this school was already locked down (all locked doors) and the shooter somehow shot his way inside the school.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    My understanding is this school was already locked down (all locked doors) and the shooter somehow shot his way inside the school.
    And shot five or six unarmed people on the way to the classroom, and everyone thought it was the janitor making noise.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Given it's validity as reported; he shot the glass out of the front doors to gain entry.

    I would suggest putting pressure on the school board/state to make the schools safer with the increase of school shootings.

    Locked doors/restricted entry
    Bullet proof glass to prevent this type of entry.
    Raise classroom window (bullet proof as well) height to prevent access from there.
    Surveillance cameras with a monitored central location; with an alarm activation to lock the school down and notify police.

    Just a couple of obvious things that may help...but no..let's pass some more laws so the bad guys can't do this anymore.

    JMO

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    for those of us with kids in school, it's never too soon to discuss their safety
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    All of the foregoing are excellent suggestions. I hope we can all join to effect some useful changes. My point here is, if we don't lead the charge, anything we do in response to the anti-gun lobby will be seen as defending our positioin at the expense of our children's safety. I don't see why keeping our children safe at our schools has to be at the expense of our 2A Rights.

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Be Proactive Here

    I don't mean to imply that any person's life is not valuable, especially when we are talking about very young children, but to say that we need to spend trillions of dollars to ward off the extremely rare possibility that a student will be killed during a school shooting does not make sense. Assuming a low figure of $100,000 in security measures per school and that there are around 150,000 school buildings in this country, you are looking at a trillion dollars to secure against something that rarely happens.
    What are the chances that even 1 student will die in a school shooting at a K-12 school? My rough estimate looking at the number of students that have attended school over the last 5 years and factoring the number of students who have been killed by a shooter, the chances are about 1 in 10 million. Considering the number of children killed by other means... car accidents, drownings, etc, I would rather that expensive measures be utilized in those areas where the occurrence of a child's death is much more likely... and any money spent will have a much greater impact.

    This is not to say nothing needs to be done, rather what needs to be done is more than security theater. Most of the measures mentioned above can be easily thwarted by a person slipping through behind someone walking through a door.
    One way would be by allowing there to be a possibility of anyone who wishes to use a firearm to kill a large number of people to actually meet armed resistance. Instead of asking people to be passive and to herd children into a very small area where a shooting is like shooting fish in a barrel, let there be people already in the school prepared to meet and repel the attacker with a tool proven to be rather effective: a firearm. I'm not advocating every teacher be armed, but a few per building would be more than enough. Rifles locked in secure areas throughout the building might also be advisable.

    Although this is little comfort to the parents of the children who were killed...or even parents anywhere else, the travesties like what occurred in CT is, fortunately, a very rare event. That's why it is called "news".

    As rare as it is, implementing inexpensive but effective responses will have a much larger effect than throwing money at a problem that will unfortunately still occur no matter what we do. But, by allowing those teachers or staff willing to be armed to have the means to decrease the number of people who die during any event, we can certainly reduce the death toll.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  10. #10
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Considering the number of children killed by other means... car accidents
    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/....html#msg19263
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I don't mean to imply that any person's life is not valuable, especially when we are talking about very young children, but to say that we need to spend trillions of dollars to ward off the extremely rare possibility that a student will be killed during a school shooting does not make sense. Assuming a low figure of $100,000 in security measures per school and that there are around 150,000 school buildings in this country, you are looking at a trillion dollars to secure against something that rarely happens.
    What are the chances that even 1 student will die in a school shooting at a K-12 school? My rough estimate looking at the number of students that have attended school over the last 5 years and factoring the number of students who have been killed by a shooter, the chances are about 1 in 10 million. Considering the number of children killed by other means... car accidents, drownings, etc, I would rather that expensive measures be utilized in those areas where the occurrence of a child's death is much more likely... and any money spent will have a much greater impact.

    This is not to say nothing needs to be done, rather what needs to be done is more than security theater. Most of the measures mentioned above can be easily thwarted by a person slipping through behind someone walking through a door.
    One way would be by allowing there to be a possibility of anyone who wishes to use a firearm to kill a large number of people to actually meet armed resistance. Instead of asking people to be passive and to herd children into a very small area where a shooting is like shooting fish in a barrel, let there be people already in the school prepared to meet and repel the attacker with a tool proven to be rather effective: a firearm. I'm not advocating every teacher be armed, but a few per building would be more than enough. Rifles locked in secure areas throughout the building might also be advisable.

    Although this is little comfort to the parents of the children who were killed...or even parents anywhere else, the travesties like what occurred in CT is, fortunately, a very rare event. That's why it is called "news".

    As rare as it is, implementing inexpensive but effective responses will have a much larger effect than throwing money at a problem that will unfortunately still occur no matter what we do. But, by allowing those teachers or staff willing to be armed to have the means to decrease the number of people who die during any event, we can certainly reduce the death toll.
    I figured out how to solve this problem a long time ago.

    Close the schools. That will get rid of these shootings, along with teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, and violence. To further prevent the teenage pregnancy, we'd have to section off the living quarters with the boys on one side of town and the girls on the other. Not contact between the two could be made, and to enforce that would be a free-fire zone between.

    Saves money, and solves all the social ills associated with the schools.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    QFT.


    I would be ok with closing the schools as well. As far as keeping the young men and woman separate, the idea is unnatural, and short sighted, but thats a different argument.
    But think of all the teen age pregnancy we'd stop. Not to mention all the boys would have one of the main reasons for fighting no longer a part of their day, so that would cut down on violence also.

    Come on man! It's for the children!

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