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Let's Be Proactive Here

Dan F.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Cadillac Area, Michigan, USA
I don't think it's realistic to hire enough police officers to guard each school building in the state. I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent. I have volunteered to stand at the door to a school here in my district. It's not much but if we, as responsible firearm owners, don't step up to the plate here, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
I don't think it's realistic to hire enough police officers to guard each school building in the state. I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent. I have volunteered to stand at the door to a school here in my district. It's not much but if we, as responsible firearm owners, don't step up to the plate here, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Its an idea; you are to be commended. Do we know that the shooter always enters through the front door? Or, seeing you, finds another route in?
 

Dan F.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Cadillac Area, Michigan, USA
Good point. At our schools the students can't enter through all the doors. There is a degree of acess control. It's an idea that may need some engineering to be practical.
 

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
I DO think it's possible that a (unarmed) person standing at the door of a school with the obvious intent of confronting an obviously armed attacker would be a deterrent.

My understanding is this school was already locked down (all locked doors) and the shooter somehow shot his way inside the school.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
My understanding is this school was already locked down (all locked doors) and the shooter somehow shot his way inside the school.

And shot five or six unarmed people on the way to the classroom, and everyone thought it was the janitor making noise.
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Given it's validity as reported; he shot the glass out of the front doors to gain entry.

I would suggest putting pressure on the school board/state to make the schools safer with the increase of school shootings.

Locked doors/restricted entry
Bullet proof glass to prevent this type of entry.
Raise classroom window (bullet proof as well) height to prevent access from there.
Surveillance cameras with a monitored central location; with an alarm activation to lock the school down and notify police.

Just a couple of obvious things that may help...but no..let's pass some more laws so the bad guys can't do this anymore.

JMO
 

Dan F.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Cadillac Area, Michigan, USA
All of the foregoing are excellent suggestions. I hope we can all join to effect some useful changes. My point here is, if we don't lead the charge, anything we do in response to the anti-gun lobby will be seen as defending our positioin at the expense of our children's safety. I don't see why keeping our children safe at our schools has to be at the expense of our 2A Rights.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
I don't mean to imply that any person's life is not valuable, especially when we are talking about very young children, but to say that we need to spend trillions of dollars to ward off the extremely rare possibility that a student will be killed during a school shooting does not make sense. Assuming a low figure of $100,000 in security measures per school and that there are around 150,000 school buildings in this country, you are looking at a trillion dollars to secure against something that rarely happens.
What are the chances that even 1 student will die in a school shooting at a K-12 school? My rough estimate looking at the number of students that have attended school over the last 5 years and factoring the number of students who have been killed by a shooter, the chances are about 1 in 10 million. Considering the number of children killed by other means... car accidents, drownings, etc, I would rather that expensive measures be utilized in those areas where the occurrence of a child's death is much more likely... and any money spent will have a much greater impact.

This is not to say nothing needs to be done, rather what needs to be done is more than security theater. Most of the measures mentioned above can be easily thwarted by a person slipping through behind someone walking through a door.
One way would be by allowing there to be a possibility of anyone who wishes to use a firearm to kill a large number of people to actually meet armed resistance. Instead of asking people to be passive and to herd children into a very small area where a shooting is like shooting fish in a barrel, let there be people already in the school prepared to meet and repel the attacker with a tool proven to be rather effective: a firearm. I'm not advocating every teacher be armed, but a few per building would be more than enough. Rifles locked in secure areas throughout the building might also be advisable.

Although this is little comfort to the parents of the children who were killed...or even parents anywhere else, the travesties like what occurred in CT is, fortunately, a very rare event. That's why it is called "news".

As rare as it is, implementing inexpensive but effective responses will have a much larger effect than throwing money at a problem that will unfortunately still occur no matter what we do. But, by allowing those teachers or staff willing to be armed to have the means to decrease the number of people who die during any event, we can certainly reduce the death toll.
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
I don't mean to imply that any person's life is not valuable, especially when we are talking about very young children, but to say that we need to spend trillions of dollars to ward off the extremely rare possibility that a student will be killed during a school shooting does not make sense. Assuming a low figure of $100,000 in security measures per school and that there are around 150,000 school buildings in this country, you are looking at a trillion dollars to secure against something that rarely happens.
What are the chances that even 1 student will die in a school shooting at a K-12 school? My rough estimate looking at the number of students that have attended school over the last 5 years and factoring the number of students who have been killed by a shooter, the chances are about 1 in 10 million. Considering the number of children killed by other means... car accidents, drownings, etc, I would rather that expensive measures be utilized in those areas where the occurrence of a child's death is much more likely... and any money spent will have a much greater impact.

This is not to say nothing needs to be done, rather what needs to be done is more than security theater. Most of the measures mentioned above can be easily thwarted by a person slipping through behind someone walking through a door.
One way would be by allowing there to be a possibility of anyone who wishes to use a firearm to kill a large number of people to actually meet armed resistance. Instead of asking people to be passive and to herd children into a very small area where a shooting is like shooting fish in a barrel, let there be people already in the school prepared to meet and repel the attacker with a tool proven to be rather effective: a firearm. I'm not advocating every teacher be armed, but a few per building would be more than enough. Rifles locked in secure areas throughout the building might also be advisable.

Although this is little comfort to the parents of the children who were killed...or even parents anywhere else, the travesties like what occurred in CT is, fortunately, a very rare event. That's why it is called "news".

As rare as it is, implementing inexpensive but effective responses will have a much larger effect than throwing money at a problem that will unfortunately still occur no matter what we do. But, by allowing those teachers or staff willing to be armed to have the means to decrease the number of people who die during any event, we can certainly reduce the death toll.
I figured out how to solve this problem a long time ago.

Close the schools. That will get rid of these shootings, along with teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, and violence. To further prevent the teenage pregnancy, we'd have to section off the living quarters with the boys on one side of town and the girls on the other. Not contact between the two could be made, and to enforce that would be a free-fire zone between.

Saves money, and solves all the social ills associated with the schools.:)
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
QFT.


I would be ok with closing the schools as well. As far as keeping the young men and woman separate, the idea is unnatural, and short sighted, but thats a different argument.
But think of all the teen age pregnancy we'd stop. Not to mention all the boys would have one of the main reasons for fighting no longer a part of their day, so that would cut down on violence also.

Come on man! It's for the children!
 
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