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Thread: Intervention during a shooting by a citizen?

  1. #1
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    Intervention during a shooting by a citizen?

    Ok there has been a lot of innuendo, and sitings of armed citizens who were there and could of, might of, would of intervened during a shooting, and there is alot of either condemning or raising to the pedestal those people.

    Taking out the shoulda mighta woulda's, can I have some postings of where a citizen ACTUALLY intervened and put down a threat? I get tired of all the speculations. I can not think of any recent shooting or mass incident where a citizen was the lynch pin in putting down a perpetrator.

    IF posters want to keep using this as a significant or majority reason and citing it for why they carry to the mall i'd really like to hear some actual citations. Otherwise it's the same as saying I almost had dinner with... (Celeb) cause I was in the restaurant.

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    http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31...ge-statistics/


    "The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.29

    The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.33"
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    they should of put when the police respond the perps kill themselves after 14.29 since most of the shootings you read about usually ends in suicide.
    Last edited by ApacheBunny; 12-17-2012 at 04:26 AM.
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    BadKarma,
    Thanks I appreciate the cites, especially the last one. I know that there have been several one on one shootings/muggings/assaults, that have been stopped by an armed citizen, I was really looking for the grander, general take over type stop and that is what you covered. Those are the types of citings we need with the fresh round of gun talks.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Intervention during a shooting by a citizen?

    I know there was a college shooting in Idaho that was ended when students went to their trucks to get their rifles. I think maybe only three died there. Don't have time to look it up right now. I'll try to later.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    The Solution you have will always be more effective than the Solution you have to send for.

    Likewise for a fire. A fire extinguisher applied within moments of the fire starting will result in far less damage that if you wait for the Fire Department.

    Reliable citations are hard to come by as they are rarely reported, either in a timely manner, or at all.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Intervention during a shooting by a citizen?

    Sorry I can't get the link right now but there was a recent church shooting in Colorado springs that was stopped by a female civilian.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    The NRA keeps up a page with armed citizens defending themselves.
    http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

    Wonder how many of them ran off to hide? It is a choice and they made the best one for them but if you run away don't try and play hero later.

    Here are a few from the link above

    December 13, 2012
    Gas station clerks shoot armed robber, The Cincinnati Enquirer, Cincinnati, Ohio 12/10/12

    Two clerks were operating a Sunoco gas station in Springfield Township, Ohio, when an armed robber entered the store and ordered one of the clerks to “go behind the counter and get me the money.” As the criminal went behind the counter he fired at the clerks, prompting the pair to retrieve a .40-caliber pistol and a shotgun and fire at the robber. Shots fired by both clerks struck the criminal, killing him. A daily customer of the Sunoco station was puzzled as to why anyone would attempt to rob the store, telling local media, “I know everyone that works in there. They are all great guys. Everybody knows they have guns. That’s why I’m surprised someone tried to rob them. It does not make sense.”
    FULL STORY

    December 11, 2012
    Store owner stops knife-wielding robber, WOOD-TV, Battle Creek, Mich. 12/04/12

    Pardeep Singh was working behind the counter of his family’s convenience store, Liberty Mart, in Battle Creek, Mich. when a man entered the store and demanded money. Singh handed over some money and tried to calm the robber by talking to him. Unsatisfied with the amount of cash, the criminal said he needed more money, revealed a knife and attempted to get behind the counter. As the robber moved towards Singh, Singh retrieved a gun and shot the criminal in the head, ending the robbery. The wounded robber was taken to a local hospital where he was listed in critical condition. No one else was harmed during the incident.
    FULL STORY

    December 5, 2012
    AutoZone Employee Fired After Saving Manager, (WTKR, Hampton Roads, Va. 11/30/12)

    An armed robber, who police believe has robbed more than 30 businesses on Virginia’s middle peninsula, entered an AutoZone in York County, Va. and attempted to rob the store. Upon recognizing the criminal who has been called the “fake beard bandit,” store employee Devin McClean retreated to the store’s bathroom, then exited the store and headed for his truck. McClean retrieved a pistol from his vehicle, reentered the store and ordered the criminal to freeze as he was terrorizing another employee. At first the bandit complied and threw his hands in the air, but then he fled the scene. Following the incident, the manager on duty told McClean, “thank you Devin, you really saved my life.” Unfortunately, two days after the attempted robbery, McClean was fired by AutoZone, whose corporate office cited a zero tolerance policy when contacted by the media. Despite losing his job, McClean says he wouldn’t change anything, stating, “If I can save somebody’s life, I put that way above store policy.”
    FULL STORY

    November 29, 2012
    Jewelry store owner combats violent criminals, KGO-TV, San Francisco, Calif. 11/26/2012

    Two masked and armed criminals entered Joyeria Vanessa jewelry store in San Jose, Calif. and demanded money from the owner. In response, the owner retrieved a pistol and fired at the robbers. The shots missed, but sent the criminals fleeing to a nearby getaway car. Police made clear that the woman had a right to defend herself.
    FULL STORY

    November 27, 2012
    Woman defends son and home from burglar, The Joplin Globe, Joplin, Mo. 11/21/12

    A woman was at home with her three-year-old son in Wyandotte, Okla. when she was awakened by a knock on her door. The homeowner peered outside, noticed a strange man at her door and retrieved a .22-caliber pistol. The man then began breaking into the home, making it through one of two locked doors; at which point the woman opened the inside door and fired a shot at the criminal. The would-be burglar fled to a waiting getaway car and proceeded to cross the state line into Missouri. After viewing surveillance video of a nearby road, Missouri police were able to determine the criminal’s whereabouts and make an arrest.
    FULL STORY

    November 16, 2012
    Store owner fatally shoots armed criminal, The Houston Chronicle, Houston, Texas 11/14/12, KTRK, Houston, Texas 11/15/12

    A robber armed with a handgun entered a cell phone store in Houston, Texas and attempted to rob the owner. The owner responded by retrieving a gun and firing at the criminal, striking him twice and causing him to flee to a nearby getaway car. The robber died after the getaway driver took him to a hospital in Pearland, Texas. The getaway driver is in custody.
    FULL STORY

    November 13, 2012
    Immigrant uses revolver to defend home, The Herald, Sharon, Pa. 11/08/12

    Italian immigrant Pete Delli Bovi was at home on his couch in Sharon, Pa. when an intruder attempted to break down his door with a brick at 3 in the afternoon. Delli Bovi, who told reporters he always keeps his .38-caliber revolver nearby, retrieved the gun and shot the criminal twice. The home invader fled the scene but was captured by police after seeking treatment at a local hospital. Sharon Police Chief Mike Menster made clear that no charges would be filed against Delli Bovi and remarked, “This is an occupational hazard of being a burglar – eventually, you’re going to go into the wrong house and you’re going to get hurt.”
    FULL STORY

    November 7, 2012
    Wanted criminal shot by 69-year-old homeowner, The Modesto Bee, Modesto, Calif. 11/05/12

    While driving a car he stole less than 15 minutes earlier, a thief in Ceres, Calif. spotted a 69-year-old homeowner in his garage and attempted to rob him with a knife. The homeowner responded by retrieving a nearby .38-caliber handgun and shooting the criminal twice. The wounded robber fled the home but was captured by police in a nearby yard. An investigation revealed that the criminal already had a warrant out for his arrest, resulting from his lack of participation in a court ordered alternative work program.
    FULL STORY

    November 6, 2012
    Store owner scares off masked gunman, The Tri-City Herald, Kennewick, Wash. 11/04/12

    A masked criminal, wielding what looked like a handgun, entered the Tienda la Comadre convenience store in Hermiston, Ore. and attempted to rob the store. Police say the robber was in the store for all of five seconds before the owner retrieved a gun and fired at the criminal, causing him to flee. Nothing was taken from the store.
    FULL STORY

    November 2, 2012
    Woman fights off two armed home invaders, The Beaufort Gazette, Beaufort, S.C. 10/30/12

    A pair of armed intruders entered a home in St. Helena Island, S.C. and attempted to rob the 31-year-old woman who lives there. The homeowner responded by retrieving a gun and firing at the criminals, striking one and causing both to flee. The wounded criminal was discovered when he turned up at the Savannah Memorial University Medical Center seeking treatment; the other was captured a day later. The home invaders face charges of armed robbery and attempted murder.
    FULL STORY

    November 1, 2012
    Woman defends home from violent intruder, The Birmingham News, Birmingham, Ala. October 30, 2012

    A 63-year-old woman suffering from congestive heart failure and arthritis was asleep at home in Bessemer, Ala. when an armed intruder came into her bedroom. The home invader demanded that the woman hand over money and jewelry, and when she didn’t comply, he drew a keyhole saw and cut her on her stomach and arm. Eventually, one of the woman’s seven dogs alerted a guest staying at the home to the commotion. The guest distracted the criminal long enough for the woman to retrieve a .44-caliber revolver and shoot the criminal, who fled the scene. Police captured the home invader a short time later after he sought treatment at a local hospital. Following the shooting, the woman told local media, “I have a family to protect and that’s what I did. I protected me and mine.” The armed citizen also noted that she has been a gun owner for more than 30 years and that “women are better with guns.”
    FULL STORY
    Last edited by BigDave; 12-17-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1682519.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Huffington Post
    ~Snip~ Nineteen-year-olds Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins were later arrested and face attempted armed robbery with a firearm and criminal mischief charges. Both posted bail and were released...
    ..and
    ........were
    ................released.

    .....Tell me again WHY we have rampant crime, school shootings and why we are condemned for wanting to own and/or carry guns, ANY Guns, including assault rifles and hi-cap hand guns.....


    Freeking really?...?

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    Last edited by Batousaii; 12-17-2012 at 01:03 PM.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1682519.html


    ..and
    ........were
    ................released.

    .....Tell me again WHY we have rampant crime, school shootings and why we are condemned for wanting to own and/or carry guns, ANY Guns, including assault rifles and hi-cap hand guns.....


    Freeking really?...?

    Bat.
    I have no problem with reasonable bail. I have a problem with bail that does not match the crime...like personal recognicense bond for Karl Thompson when he was appealing his felony conviction.

    The bail for these two was probably not adiquate either, as they do not look like they have a ton of assets to pledge.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    .. My personal opinion: If you exhibited a willingness to kill during a crime such as robbery, carjacking, home invasion, etc then you should not be let out on parole - it should be hard time, period. This type of criminal is why our environment is often dangerous. If it was non-violent, or there is reasonable doubt that it was a given person, or if proof of guilt is not solid, then I understand parole. "Yes" innocent until proven guilty..."No" for freedom to those caught red-handed exhibiting violent tendencies against innocent victims and awaiting trial.

    - How to protect the innocent?? -actually punish the REAL violent offenders.
    - For topic: When good citizens take the risk to intervene and save their fellow citizens from harm or death, make it worth their efforts and back them up with securing the violent offender until their trial. Again, if there is actual doubt regarding the offender’s guilt/ID, then parole etc. But red-handed, positive ID, on video crimes against the innocent (a no-doubt / proven guilty)-- freekin keep em locked up.... Fair Trial... Then hang em high if found guilty of violent crimes against the innocent. <sorry repeating myself, just gets me pizzed>

    - How many repeat career criminals are we going to pamper and coddle?? When will we sack up and start to deal with these "evil bastards"? or are we just going to let our land fester with corruption remain plagued by the scourge. The horde is at the gates, and yet we seem more concerned with how we treat them, than preserving the health and stability of our nation. God forbid we hurt their feelings or cause them any inconvenience or consequence for their heinous crimes... Maybe having them out there is simply a means to an end, an excuse to leverage more laws against the law abiding. A means of social control.

    Anyways, enough of my tirade, i just get fed up with how “nice”we are to the sociopaths.
    Last edited by Batousaii; 12-17-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Here is one where an assistant principal retrieved his 45 and subdued the shooter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

    The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

    Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School.

    However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir." Minutes before he started the shooting, he gave the following message to a friend
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Google Joel Myrick.

    http://www.allamericanblogger.com/24...-personal-gun/

    "FLASHBACK: Asst. Principal Ends School Shooting With Personal Gun"

    It doesn't get much more relevant than that!
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Here is one where an assistant principal retrieved his 45 and subdued the shooter.
    That's it I am going to start drinking! Navy and I posted within a minute..... about the same thing....
    Last edited by BigDave; 12-18-2012 at 12:43 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Boomboy007's Avatar
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    Lightbulb You can't prove a negative.

    Quote Originally Posted by triehl27 View Post
    BadKarma,
    Thanks I appreciate the cites, especially the last one. I know that there have been several one on one shootings/muggings/assaults, that have been stopped by an armed citizen, I was really looking for the grander, general take over type stop and that is what you covered. Those are the types of citings we need with the fresh round of gun talks.
    I see what you are saying, but the very fact that the perps were stopped prevented what may have been plans for a mass event, or a string of assaults. You can't prove a negative, and a few armed teachers in Sandy Hook would have changed the outcome, IMHO.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Nah, it's more like I picked the wrong night, tonight, to stop drinking :-).

    You got this very relevant one too, BigDave?

    http://easybakegunclub.com/blog/1968...he-Full-S.html
    No I did not have that one, thanks. I did find it full of fluff and after removing all the dramatics it read about the same as the rest.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    well in the recent Portland, OR shooting at the mall, it sure looks like legal concealed carry helped end the rampage without firing a single shot. Good for him I say.

    article on KGW.com

    Just in case the link goes away...

    Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

    by Mike Benner, KGW Staff
    Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:18 AM
    Updated December 17, 2012 at 11:52 AM

    PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
    "I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

    The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

    "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

    The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

    "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

    The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

    "I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."

  18. #18
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugsgomoo View Post
    well in the recent Portland, OR shooting at the mall, it sure looks like legal concealed carry helped end the rampage without firing a single shot. Good for him I say.

    article on KGW.com

    Just in case the link goes away...
    There is no indication that he stopped the threat, just assumptions.
    This incident has and is being discussed in another Washington Thread. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ds-to-see-this
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugsgomoo View Post
    well in the recent Portland, OR shooting at the mall, it sure looks like legal concealed carry helped end the rampage without firing a single shot. Good for him I say.

    article on KGW.com

    Just in case the link goes away...
    What indication do we have that he did anything? His word?

    We have no video, no eyewitness, no nothing to show he had anything to do with 'ending the rampage'. Nor can you get in the head of the deranged shooter to know for certain that he ever saw this guy or had any influence on when he would take his own life.
    Live Free or Die!

  20. #20
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    An extended story and interview with the Oregon CHL holder.

    http://5440fight.com/2012/12/17/the-...mall-shooting/
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    An extended story and interview with the Oregon CHL holder.

    http://5440fight.com/2012/12/17/the-...mall-shooting/
    So it would appear that a person with a gun, in a gun free zone, quite possibly limited the number of fatalities.

    I think that's far to foreign a concept for the "anti-gun lib's" to grasp.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There is a rumor that the shooter at Sandy Hooks school was confronted by a citizen with a gun, and he then took his own life. This person would have been carrying illegally. Remember a person was arrested at the scene and then released, and the radio traffic reports TWO shooters. The citizen was apparently apprehended running from the scene. The only thing to back this up so far are the original media reports that there were two shooters, and the second in custody. And the radio traffic where the dispatcher told the responding officers there were two, and the radio transmission of the officer stating suspect in custody. Of course the media and politicians would not want us to know a citizen with a gun put a end to the massacre.

    (putting on tinfoil hat) It may very well be a case where the president is orchestrating a coverup to get his coveted AWB.
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  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is a rumor that the shooter at Sandy Hooks school was confronted by a citizen with a gun, and he then took his own life. This person would have been carrying illegally. Remember a person was arrested at the scene and then released, and the radio traffic reports TWO shooters. The citizen was apparently apprehended running from the scene. The only thing to back this up so far are the original media reports that there were two shooters, and the second in custody. And the radio traffic where the dispatcher told the responding officers there were two, and the radio transmission of the officer stating suspect in custody. Of course the media and politicians would not want us to know a citizen with a gun put a end to the massacre.

    (putting on tinfoil hat) It may very well be a case where the president is orchestrating a coverup to get his coveted AWB.
    I heard as well from one of the news agency where a citizen was reporting that the man they took into custody was saying that he didn't shoot them as he was being hauled off into a police car while handcuffed.
    There was something about finding him or seeing him in a wooded area close by?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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