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Thread: Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    Both sides of the equation just don't get it.Pro's step onto their box and demand there be more firearms.Anti's step onto their box demanding there be less firearms.A bunch of opportunistic political gutter dwellers on both sides.There primary issues:-Mental health-Poverty-War on drugsThe so-called fiscal cliff will include cuts to mental health care...we need an expansion.Poor individuals do commit acts of desperation to survive, and to lash out at society.Everyone knows the War On Drugs is an utter failure.Democrats and Republicans would rather take the most emotive, political convenient, and expedient route: demand that the handling of firearms is the solution...either more, or less.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 12-17-2012 at 05:22 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Both sides of the equation just don't get it.Pro's step onto their box and demand there be more firearms.Anti's step onto their box demanding there be less firearms.A bunch of opportunistic political gutter dwellers on both sides.3 primary issues:-Mental health-Poverty-War on drugs.The so-called fiscal cliff will include cuts to mental health care...we need an expansion.Poor individuals do commit acts of desperation to survive, and to lash out at society.Everyone knows the War On Drugs is an utter failure.Democrats and Republicans would rather take the most emotive, political convenient, and expedient route: demand that the handling of firearms is the solution...either more, or less.
    The attack was NOT an act of desperation, it was a act of seeking attention, to become immortal, and get the fame like the others have done. This is a problem exasperated by media and liberals who just can't stop talking about it.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The attack was NOT an act of desperation, it was a act of seeking attention, to become immortal, and get the fame like the others have done. This is a problem exasperated by media and liberals who just can't stop talking about it.


    Funny thing is I'm not exclusively referring to the recent shooting, nor mass shootings.



    You can continue blaming Liberals for everything...a nice contribution to the problem.



    I get it though. It's easier for you to be part of the problem, rather than the more dificult task of taking part in a solution.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 12-17-2012 at 05:44 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Re: Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Funny thing is I'm not exclusively referring to the recent shooting, nor mass shootings.



    You can continue blaming Liberals for everything...a nice contribution to the problem.



    I get it though. It's easier for you to be part of the problem, rather than the more dificult task of taking part in a solution.
    I don't think now is the time on place for either side to make there point. We should be taking the time to not only morn, but celebrate the lives of those lost.

    Patience is a virtue. I will say this. Why can't we put vets, that are looking for a job atm, be aloud to stand the halls with the appropriate tools that the school's community deem appropriate for the task.

    I think this would solve a lot of problems on both sides of the fence.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Funny thing is I'm not exclusively referring to the recent shooting, nor mass shootings.



    You can continue blaming Liberals for everything...a nice contribution to the problem.



    I get it though. It's easier for you to be part of the problem, rather than the more dificult task of taking part in a solution.
    I'll take the bait. Whats the solution? Honest question.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I'll take the bait. Whats the solution? Honest question.

    The first step to a better solution: drop the 'more firearms...less firearms' knee-jerk response from both sides.



    The reality is that under either sides solution the man would have still been at the school looking to shoot people.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think there ought to be more restrictions...hell, I think felons ought not be barred from owning firearms, and carryinf firearms.




    The substantive issues at hand are Systemic. Unfortunately, dealing with systemic issues costs money, and no person wants to help pay for it.


    Americans are bonafide idiots, period.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 12-17-2012 at 06:20 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I'll take the bait. Whats the solution? Honest question.
    Any even better question is what's the problem she's trying to solve. If you re-read the OP, there is no stated problem. Thus, we have no idea to what she is applying her solution(s).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Any even better question is what's the problem she's trying to solve. If you re-read the OP, there is no stated problem. Thus, we have no idea to what she is applying her solution(s).

    Nearly 14k posts under your belt, and you're still having trouble comprehending posts, ot thoroughly reading posts.



    I stated the first problem; hint: posturing on both sides.



    There's a bone for you.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  10. #10
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    I don't think now is the time on place for either side to make there point. We should be taking the time to not only morn, but celebrate the lives of those lost.

    Patience is a virtue. I will say this. Why can't we put vets, that are looking for a job atm, be aloud to stand the halls with the appropriate tools that the school's community deem appropriate for the task.

    I think this would solve a lot of problems on both sides of the fence.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Why just vet's? Are veterans somehow magically more competent, and more morally upstanding than an every-day Law-Abiding Citizen? There are millions of us LAC gun owners who need a job, only to be turned down because a lot of employers give preferential hiring to veterans... The only way to be a cop in most places without having years of college, is to present a flimsy DD214... IMO, I'd trust my neighbor with a gun in the halls of the local school over any veteran who could possibly suffering PTSD and haven't showed the signs of it... that's begging for another massacre.
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Both sides of the equation just don't get it.Pro's step onto their box and demand there be more firearms.Anti's step onto their box demanding there be less firearms.A bunch of opportunistic political gutter dwellers on both sides.3 primary issues:-Mental health-Poverty-War on drugs.The so-called fiscal cliff will include cuts to mental health care...we need an expansion.Poor individuals do commit acts of desperation to survive, and to lash out at society.Everyone knows the War On Drugs is an utter failure.Democrats and Republicans would rather take the most emotive, political convenient, and expedient route: demand that the handling of firearms is the solution...either more, or less.
    Ok...

    1) an "expansion" on mental health care? Meaning what really?

    2) What do we do about poverty?

    3) What's your solution on the "war on drugs"?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Nearly 14k posts under your belt, and you're still having trouble comprehending posts, ot thoroughly reading posts.

    I stated the first problem; hint: posturing on both sides.

    There's a bone for you.
    Readers,

    This is one of the reasons I don't respond directly to her anymore.

    She fails to state a problem, then blames me for not inferring it.

    I only suspected her "problem" was the second and third sentences of the OP. However, I was absolutely certain something was screwy from her saying gunners demands for "more guns" is a knee-jerk reaction (post #6). Oh, it couldn't possibly be somehing people have looked at and thought about for a while. No, its a knee jerk reaction.

    Her rambling conflation of causes in the first post--mental health, poverty, the so-called war on drugs--was another clue something was screwy.

    But, look a little closer and it becomes apparent that the knee-jerk reaction of pro-gunners (sic) is to her a "problem". Not, the violation of rights that results in dead and wounded defenseless victims. No, the problem she wants to address is butting heads or whatever. She says to drop it. But, doesn't say what to do in its place, despite being expressly asked and given the opportunity.

    Her dim view, her emotional view, of the people involved in the argument--both sides--shines through in her first sentence, "...just don't get it." She's last person to have standing to accuse others of an emotional reaction.

    At best we've been treated to a bunch of off-base belly aching that, among other things, accuses pro-gunners of knee-jerking.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Hypocrissy

    Her starting the thread was/is a knee jerk reaction, as most of the hysteria following these shootings. Plus her response to both Citizen and I was a knee jerk reaction on her part. She does not want solutions, unless they fit the progressive agenda, she just can't bring herself to be honest about it, like most liberals.
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    Beretta, forgive me if I'm sticking words in your mouth but I think what you are asking is:

    How in the hell can we have such a sick bastard running around loose that could kill 20 innocent children, and how do we keep the next sick bastard from doing something like this.

    Sad answer is I don't know.
    I stopped stocking for the zombie apocalypse. I now stock for the liberal apocalypse.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The answer was provided to us all over 220 years ago. Liberty, is the answer.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Archibald Stuart, December 23, 1791
    The Op is liberal bleating, nothing more, and nothing less.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Re: Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why just vet's? Are veterans somehow magically more competent, and more morally upstanding than an every-day Law-Abiding Citizen? There are millions of us LAC gun owners who need a job, only to be turned down because a lot of employers give preferential hiring to veterans... The only way to be a cop in most places without having years of college, is to present a flimsy DD214... IMO, I'd trust my neighbor with a gun in the halls of the local school over any veteran who could possibly suffering PTSD and haven't showed the signs of it... that's begging for another massacre.
    Not all vets have ptsd. I threw it out there for the following reasons.

    1. I don't have to point out, that here lately you don't need to go to war to have problems of the mind.

    2. Vets do have more training in the shtf atm scenarios.

    3. Not everyone trusts john doe down the street. I completely agree with your line of thinking. I was merely trying to find a neutral way of looking at the problem, that would satisfy both sides.

    With the way the economy is, it's less money to take a already trained person, and fit to the task, instead of going threw the crap shoot of training a individual off the street.

    Not every Lac goes and gets formal/decent training. That has to be taken into consideration. Of course I'm not picky. If john doe comes in off the street, and has decent papers then so be it.

    I can't speak for others though. Just my
    .02

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    Last edited by mpguy; 12-17-2012 at 11:32 PM.

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    Re: Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    Double post. Sorry
    Last edited by mpguy; 12-17-2012 at 11:31 PM.

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    Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    I love how BerettaLady spent last few years telling us all how her beloved obama never have and never will restrict our gun rights and calling us all crazy for saying that he will as soon as its politically possible.

    Now that he came out and said that he is going to do just that, she has immediately jumped to his defense, ready to back up whatever anti-gun mantra he is about throw our way.

    And notice how she preemptively went on the attack before we even ask her some hard questions about her support for this scumbag. When asked simple and fair questions by such highly regarded and level headed activists as Citizen, she immediately responds with a personal attack questioning his ability to "comprehend posts". Wow, speaking of mentally imbalanced...

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    Anti's and pro's just don't get it.

    Speaking of which, maybe I'm onto something here. Looks like she would much rather a new AWB, so she can keep her Beretta and just buy a few 10 round mags for it, than have government restrict gun ownership on a mental disease basis. Because if they did that, she just might have to turn her Beretta in...

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I suppose I could spend another few years on here, getting into back and forths about whether or not I am pro or anti Liberty, or pro or anti gun. But last night I had a moment of clarity as I contemplated the relationships I have formed on this forum, my relationship with firearms, with the fringe side of the firearm community, with anti gun bleeding heart victim cross bearing liberals, and my inability to choose a side in this perpetual argument regarding firearms...who is right and who wrong.There will be no balanced, reasonable outcome to the political ends both sides hope to achieve.Invoted for Obama, both times, and I stand by my vote--what was the alternative...Romney, what a joke.Good luck in all endeavours. Seriously, I mean that for everyone. Let's keep OC alive, individually, every day.--I carry every day, and nothing will change that.Take it easy,Sara Mae
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Regarding a citizen's vote this past election, there was a clear choice. The majority chose to vote against individual liberty.

    Possessing and carrying does not mean that you are pro-2A, or pro-liberty, it only means that you possess and carry.

    The 2A does not equal liberty.

    The 2A is a acknowledgement, made ~220 years ago, that individual liberty is tenuous and must be defended at all costs otherwise it shall be forever lost. The 2A provides an avenue for the citizenry to defend against the tyranny of the state and by extension the tyranny of the anti-liberty voter.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Regarding a citizen's vote this past election, there was a clear choice. The majority chose to vote against individual liberty.

    Possessing and carrying does not mean that you are pro-2A, or pro-liberty, it only means that you possess and carry.

    The 2A does not equal liberty.

    The 2A is a acknowledgement, made ~220 years ago, that individual liberty is tenuous and must be defended at all costs otherwise it shall be forever lost. The 2A provides an avenue for the citizenry to defend against the tyranny of the state and by extension the tyranny of the anti-liberty voter.
    OC for ME,

    I normally agree with your well-informed posts but there was no vote available for liberty now or before because the majority rule inevitably leads to the extinguishing of liberty not expansion. Like the concept of limited government, there is no historical precedent for voting expanding individual freedom and liberty because it is a de jure and de facto denial of liberty to a minority otherwise a vote has no value. Unlike free markets, the state is a zero sum game by definition. Its parasite and looter constituencies eventually metastatize into the Free Sh*t Army that hold the majority of the shattered franchise today.

    The OP is wrong also, no matter how expansive the "pre-crime" intentions of mental health screening, evil and intent will always find a way to author these tragedies. The shameful political game of always trying to bar the barn doors after the horses have run out has left a vast trail of tears with statist nonsense, regulatory over-reach and a few steps closer to the government supremacist wet dream of Orwell fulfilled.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You can continue blaming Liberals for everything...a nice contribution to the problem.
    I blame the COMMERCIAL media. They are creating these monsters by rewarding malignant narcissists who are willing to kill for attention, with more attention than they could imagine in their wildest dreams.

    What kind of drooling retard thinks that responding to negative behavior with positive reinforcement EVER diminishes that behavior? Why do you think they tell you not to feed bears?

    The COMMERCIAL media are like I.G. Farben. Their GOAL isn't dead bodies, but in the name of profit, they'll gleefully stampede across those corpses to get to the ad and ratings revenues.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    OC for ME,

    I normally agree with your well-informed posts but there was no vote available for liberty now or before because the majority rule inevitably leads to the extinguishing of liberty not expansion. Like the concept of limited government, there is no historical precedent for voting expanding individual freedom and liberty because it is a de jure and de facto denial of liberty to a minority otherwise a vote has no value. Unlike free markets, the state is a zero sum game by definition. Its parasite and looter constituencies eventually metastatize into the Free Sh*t Army that hold the majority of the shattered franchise today.

    The OP is wrong also, no matter how expansive the "pre-crime" intentions of mental health screening, evil and intent will always find a way to author these tragedies. The shameful political game of always trying to bar the barn doors after the horses have run out has left a vast trail of tears with statist nonsense, regulatory over-reach and a few steps closer to the government supremacist wet dream of Orwell fulfilled.
    My initial reaction to your contentions is to give them merit. At this point I may continue to give them merit regarding the vote in today's America.

    However, I am compelled to return to the Constitution as the example of the flaw that resides in your premise. The 13A is a example of the minority becoming the majority that expanded individual freedom and liberty, technically giving freedom and liberty to a entire demographic of our population that did not "qualify" for freedom and liberty.

    Other examples are; the 14A, 15A, 17A, 19A, 21A, 23A, 24A, and the 26A. In each of these cases the majority was initially against the results that were intended for these amendments, except maybe the 26A. The minority worked to become the majority and thus freedoms expanded and individual liberty was strengthened.

    You are correct, the "parasite and looter constituencies" appear to be the majority, today, but large majority of the citizenry as a whole do desire a return to greater freedoms and less infringement of our individual liberties. The difficulty resides in the fact that a minority of the large majority votes. The voting majority is actually the minority. Unfortunately polls are not votes and polls do not motivate all of the majority to vote.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    I blame the COMMERCIAL media. They are creating these monsters by rewarding malignant narcissists who are willing to kill for attention, with more attention than they could imagine in their wildest dreams.

    What kind of drooling retard thinks that responding to negative behavior with positive reinforcement EVER diminishes that behavior? Why do you think they tell you not to feed bears?

    The COMMERCIAL media are like I.G. Farben. Their GOAL isn't dead bodies, but in the name of profit, they'll gleefully stampede across those corpses to get to the ad and ratings revenues.
    +1 Bingo! The media loves this stuff, they wet themselves whenever something really bad happens.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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