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Thread: We are in trouble

  1. #1
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    We are in trouble

    Maybe I just need to calm down, but I feel we are in serious trouble. It seems to me that we are facing some very serious anti-gun opposition. I know there will be a federal assault weapons ban at least a vote on it. Now there is talk about gathering signatures for a ballot measure that would ban AW locally. I have been seeing far too many “I support the Second, I have guns…I want to ban automatic weapons” knee-jerk responses from people. The “Oooh! Gun, I’m scared, get it away from me” folks are going to join with the other fence riding Benedict Arnolds and they will start with AWB, duty to retreat, OCB , and finally decide no one needs to carry (except our militarized Police force.)
    I usually consider myself a pretty center-left thinker, but perhaps I may be getting paranoid, I don’t know. Do I need to check myself here? Am I alone?
    I will say one thing, you should have seen cabela’s yesterday. I took over 4 hours for me to get my new “rifle.”

  2. #2
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    I think you are right to pay attention. Most of the we need more gun laws are coming from the news media and the people they pick to interview that couldn't tell a 10/22 from a ak47. Never having touched a gun in there life. Washington Ceasefire has talked bout everything from AW Ban to limiting who can have a CPL here in WA. Thankfully they have such a small amount of members that they really don't have near the power as the Pro gun masses. But in the event a bill gets submitted. We need to act and not say it will never go through. We have a pretty good state when it comes to firearms ownership and it's been getting better with the suppressor change, and now people working on SBR and SBS.

    I just get frustrated when someone call a 10/22 with a Archangel stock on it a assault weapon but says the standard version is ok. Or a mini14 with a folding stock vs a rancher model. You don't ask a doctor about how to fix your car engine with a rod knock because he isn't educated on the subject, even though he is a very smart guy. Infact he would step back and say Sorry I really know nothing about that. Yet EVERYONE seems to be a expert on weapons. If Anti Gun people were educated, I would be more interested in sitting down and having a conversation.

    WA Ceasefire is asking for 5 so called common sense laws.

    1. I agree with having stricter punishments for underage possession of firearms.

    2. I don't see how the gun show loophole is a problem. I could buy a gun easier and more convieniently off the street, than planning a trip to a gun show and driving to it paying a entrance fee and gas.

    3. WTH is a semi- auto assault weapon anyway. Rolling eyes. I like how the leader of WA ceasefire says guns that fire I think he said up to 600 rounds a minute. Sure. Sarcasm...

    4. Clip- bullet limited to 10 All that will do is have people carrying 2 or multiple 10 round mags instead of one 15- 30 rounder. Hmmm... I can reload pretty damn fast.

    5. letting the sheriff limit who can have a CPL. saying it could have prevented Cafe' Racer. You already get turned down if you are a known bad guy. What do they want to happen have a LEO follow you around for a week and get to know you first? That will work wonders on payroll when Pierce county alone does 60-100 permits a day.

  3. #3
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    I'm not too concerned the pro 2nd amendment people of america are so active. A few minutes ago Cheaper Than Dirt suspended all online sales of firearms. And within minutes they had thousands of people leave comments and unlike thier facebook page... I tried to call to express my concerns as I was going to buy a few things tomarrow for Christmas. But the phone was a fast busy signal. I think they made one of the worst business decisions they could have ever made today...

    I am typing this while I open carry in my shop to support the 2nd.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    The biggest immediate threat are Seattle city politicians pushing for a repeal of pre-emption. Bruce Harrell already wants every city in WA to have their own laws.

    Give Harrell a call to let him know how stupid that would be, here's his number: 206-684-8804 or email him: bruce.harrell@seattle.gov

    I've called and written every member of the council today, as well as Mayor McGoo (for all the good it will do, it's always nice to remind him what happened the last time he pushed for change in gun regs).
    Last edited by Alpine; 12-18-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    Intereting...

    Just called The office. I said is this Bruce. Said yes. I said...

    me: I am open to hearing your point, I understand you are wanting to give different cities the right to make their own gun laws. Why do you think this is better than a uniform set of laws that is easy for people that travel to understand and be aware of? I see it as being not only a hassle, but also unconstitutional as already proven in this state.

    Him: We here in Seattle would and have always thought we can regulate gun laws different than other cities around the coutry. And we feel the saftey of it far out weighs the inconvenience. :disconnected:

    Me: :called back: Guy answered phone, same voice. Answers "Seattle city counsel..." I say I think we just got disconnected. and bang disconnected again.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Relax, stay calm, focus

    I suspect your wait in line is a good indication of how a broad slice of America feels. This is an emotionally charged topic and you are rightfully concerned. Stay informed, do your own research, and stick to facts NOT emotion.

    Stay safe,

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    You're absolutely right, there are more laws coming. Wise men have seen this coming for a long time. It's too bad that there is a "knee jerk reaction" on the side of Gun Owners as well as the Anti-Gun crowd.

    Mention any law, regulation, restriction, condition, etc and the knee jerk reaction among way too many gun owners is NFW. The rational voices that realize there will be more laws, and suggest that more effort be put into being part of the process as opposed to being locked out, are merely shouted down.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Yet another Seattle person to worry about. Repeal Second Amendment? Yeah right.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/former-s...amendment.html

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    The two party system is a big part of the problem. If the nation is divided, there can't be a majority to make changes. Lets make a law that there is no Republicans or Democrats. We don't hold the people we vote for accountable. Some would say the people we vote for doesn't even matter and things are decided before we even get to voice our opinions. The government has become so big the average citizen has no idea whats going on. The people we vote for don't even know what all is going on. They work with their lobbyist, and sign onto bills they never read to get support for something they are trying to push. All you can say is it's broken...

  10. #10
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    After seeing Obummer get a second round in the white house, it made me realize there are enough stupid people in the country now who have no idea what America stands for and want to turn it into the third world country they ran from. It scares me to think what they can do when they put their Libtard heads together.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  11. #11
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    The problem is the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You're absolutely right, there are more laws coming. Wise men have seen this coming for a long time. It's too bad that there is a "knee jerk reaction" on the side of Gun Owners as well as the Anti-Gun crowd.

    Mention any law, regulation, restriction, condition, etc and the knee jerk reaction among way too many gun owners is NFW. The rational voices that realize there will be more laws, and suggest that more effort be put into being part of the process as opposed to being locked out, are merely shouted down.
    Excellent points.

    The knee-jerk reaction folks on both the anti and the pro sides are not very helpful. They're mostly emotional and ideological in their approaches. Although they can and do contribute strong support for one side, extremists on both anti and pro sides are part of the problem. You can tell an extremist. You just can't tell him much.

    And, unfortunately, they do have a tendency to gang up and shout down the voices they don't like. Say something that is not politically correct and your own side will SLAM you. So, it becomes a power and purity thing.

    The worst consequence is that the issues get so polarized that the results of the contestation is a mish mash of ineffective, inconsistent and even stupid laws based on fear and politics rather than good-for-everyone analysis.

    Meanwhile, the reality of the world just keeps getting more complex. This homicidal/suicidal mass shooting in a confined, access restricted space phenomenon is getting worse. It needs to be solved somehow.

  12. #12
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    I think you are right to pay attention. Most of the we need more gun laws are coming from the news media and the people they pick to interview that couldn't tell a 10/22 from a ak47. Never having touched a gun in there life. Washington Ceasefire has talked bout everything from AW Ban to limiting who can have a CPL here in WA. Thankfully they have such a small amount of members that they really don't have near the power as the Pro gun masses. But in the event a bill gets submitted. We need to act and not say it will never go through. We have a pretty good state when it comes to firearms ownership and it's been getting better with the suppressor change, and now people working on SBR and SBS.

    I just get frustrated when someone call a 10/22 with a Archangel stock on it a assault weapon but says the standard version is ok. Or a mini14 with a folding stock vs a rancher model. You don't ask a doctor about how to fix your car engine with a rod knock because he isn't educated on the subject, even though he is a very smart guy. Infact he would step back and say Sorry I really know nothing about that. Yet EVERYONE seems to be a expert on weapons. If Anti Gun people were educated, I would be more interested in sitting down and having a conversation.

    WA Ceasefire is asking for 5 so called common sense laws.

    1. I agree with having stricter punishments for underage possession of firearms.

    2. I don't see how the gun show loophole is a problem. I could buy a gun easier and more convieniently off the street, than planning a trip to a gun show and driving to it paying a entrance fee and gas.

    3. WTH is a semi- auto assault weapon anyway. Rolling eyes. I like how the leader of WA ceasefire says guns that fire I think he said up to 600 rounds a minute. Sure. Sarcasm...

    4. Clip- bullet limited to 10 All that will do is have people carrying 2 or multiple 10 round mags instead of one 15- 30 rounder. Hmmm... I can reload pretty damn fast.

    5. letting the sheriff limit who can have a CPL. saying it could have prevented Cafe' Racer. You already get turned down if you are a known bad guy. What do they want to happen have a LEO follow you around for a week and get to know you first? That will work wonders on payroll when Pierce county alone does 60-100 permits a day.
    1: NO...enforce the laws you already have.
    2: NO, the only loophole is in their brain
    3: No
    4: No,
    5: Absolutely not.

  13. #13
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    There is not much of a consequence to teens getting caught with guns until the fifth offence. And they know that. I know of a kid that has been caught twice stealing from stores, with a gun on him. Basically got nothing for the gun charge each time. More serious penalties for the stealing.

  14. #14
    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    We are in trouble

    doesnt anybody realize that owning a true assault weapon is already illegal without a class 3 license?

    there are already laws out there governing ownership of "assault weapons" why do they needto include non assault weapons???

    there is no definition of the term "assault weapon" in the oxford dictionary either, its more of a catchphrase. hell in the 1500's a pitchfork was an assault weapon, in middle east stones are assault weapons, jumbo jets being flown into the WTC towers are assault weapons...

    people need to pull their heads out of the sand and stop pushing the agenda of encompassing guns as the only assault weapons. it seems to me the ones that want to rule us are orchestrating all these events of tragic proportions, utilizing the very tools they dont want us to have in order to make it fit their plan of disarming us.

    the pieces of the puzzle are far to great to ignore what they are trying to do and until we define what an assault weapon is then they will blanket whatever they want with that term.
    Last edited by PFC HALE; 12-20-2012 at 01:26 AM.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

  15. #15
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    My mother once asked me why I snickered whenever someone said the words "assault weapon" in my presence.

    To answer her, I dug into the recycling bin for a couple toilet paper tubes. I perforated one and taped it onto the wide end of one banana and taped the other tube onto the stem end of the banana. Then I taped a second banana at right angles to the first, and stretched several rubber bands over the ends of both bananas. I then removed the right-angles banana and replaced it with a third banana.

    When my mother asked me what I was doing, I told her that I had just violated the assault weapons ban by creating a weapon that fired projectiles, had a detachable magazine and both a pistol grip and a flash suppressor. She didn't believe me.

    This is probably a good place for a dancing banana, but I don't want to encourage people.

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    There is not much of a consequence to teens getting caught with guns until the fifth offence. And they know that. I know of a kid that has been caught twice stealing from stores, with a gun on him. Basically got nothing for the gun charge each time. More serious penalties for the stealing.
    Good. Unless the gun was used then it shouldn't be an issue.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The real question is.... what can the real majority of citizens do in this country to change politics? It seems like nothing. The politicians on Capitol Hill are going to do whatever the hell they want to do and even though the majority of citizens in this country don't like what they do it seems like we can't get rid of them.
    +1

    There is no such thing as a democracy, and democracy is tyranny too.

    I adhere to Rothbard's thinking on our modern government it is not us, it is them or they, they want our guns, they want our money, they want control.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    Intereting...

    Him: We here in Seattle would and have always thought we can regulate gun laws different than other cities around the coutry. And we feel the saftey of it far out weighs the inconvenience. :disconnected:
    I guess the part he didn't specify and you didn't get was he was referring to the safety of the criminals and mass murders to commit a higher body count.

    I love how they always say gun control will make everyone more safe; it actually only works to empower the criminals but liberals don't seem to get it. All the time the goverment has armed body guards, armed police, secret service with automatic weapons, and like mayor bloomburg has 6 armed body guards.

    Makes me sick when you think the only reason they are doing and saying this is to disarm the general public for a future enslavement of the American people. I'm not saying in the next few years but they are slowly working on taking our freedoms away and the priority is to disarm us first using every incident to push their agenda.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    Him: We here in Seattle would and have always thought we can regulate gun laws different than other cities around the coutry. And we feel the saftey of it far out weighs the inconvenience.
    Given how Seattle officials feel they shouldn't have to obey state law (or even the state constitution) I've been wondering:

    If a neighborhood within the City of Seattle decided to elect a council and that council passed neighborhood laws that violated city laws, would the city government talk about how the neighborhood deserves local control? Or would they send in the SWAT team?
    Last edited by Difdi; 12-21-2012 at 03:26 AM. Reason: can't spell tonight

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gilead_Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Given how Seattle officials feel they shouldn't have to obey state law (or even the state constitution) I've been wondering:

    If a neighborhood within the City of Seattle decided to elect a council and that council passed neighborhood laws that violated city laws, would the city government talk about how the neighborhood deserves local control? Or would they send in the SWAT team?
    excellent point... someone should ask them this?
    I aim with my eye... I shoot with my mind... I kill with my heart....
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    ~ Executive Order Limits?

    It was my understanding that the president cannot create law through executive order. maybe someone can elaborate, correct me, or clarify?
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  22. #22
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1

    There is no such thing as a democracy, and democracy is tyranny too.

    I adhere to Rothbard's thinking on our modern government it is not us, it is them or they, they want our guns, they want our money, they want control.
    Any govermental, political, or economic system is tyranny by someone against someone else. that's the simple truth of politics.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Given how Seattle officials feel they shouldn't have to obey state law (or even the state constitution) I've been wondering:

    If a neighborhood within the City of Seattle decided to elect a council and that council passed neighborhood laws that violated city laws, would the city government talk about how the neighborhood deserves local control? Or would they send in the SWAT team?
    Depends upon what the neighborhood council does.

    if the neighborhood council is threatening people with violence yes the cops would be there rather quick.
    Also the neighborhood council in your scenario is not legally recognized as a unit of government, thus all its actions attempting to force compliance are illegal.

    As far as Seattle goes, they've been beat down into compliance by the state government and court system, their actions didn't last long at all.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  24. #24
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    It was my understanding that the president cannot create law through executive order. maybe someone can elaborate, correct me, or clarify?
    No executive orders can be used to determine how to carry out laws or matters of administrative policy, not to make law

    There is nothing really that Obama can do to ban sport utility rifles, maybe if some are being imported he can have the ATF determine lack of "sporting use" but since the vast majority of semi autos are domestically produced it won't do much. There is no legal leeway that can be used to target semi autos, each category of the NFA is strictly defined enough for that.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  25. #25
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    1: NO...enforce the laws you already have.
    2: NO, the only loophole is in their brain
    3: No
    4: No,
    5: Absolutely not.
    Ding ding, we have a winner.

    And what part of," SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED," don't the idiots understand?

    For those in Washington (state), what part of ," shall not be impaired," don't they understand?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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