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Thread: SB59 Vetoed

  1. #1
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    SB59 Vetoed

    Legislation to allow concealed weapons in weapons-free places like schools and churches has been vetoed by Republican Gov. Rick Snyder.

    Snyder issued his veto shortly before 4 p.m., although rumors that he intended to veto the legislation were circulating well in advance.

    Both news outlets and state lawmakers were reporting they had been notified that Snyder planned to veto the legislation, which he only received Tuesday afternoon.
    http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...7239944103.txt

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    I was just about to post.Now we can do something productive with the next governor. It will be less of a loss in the long run. Open carry is protected, and now highly publicized. The media and governor just did about 10 years worth of work for us as far as educating the public about OC in PFZs.
    It took me about 20 minutes to post the OP. The ability/speed to navigate on this site the last week or so has been about 10 times worse than dial up. I keep getting Website Not Available pages. I have Zero issues anywhere else. WTF?

  3. #3
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    It was a bad bill.

    Now, you guys need to vigorously open carry with your permit in the PFZ that you can.

  4. #4
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    "In his veto letter sent to the Legislature, Snyder said the bill had a fatal loophole that didn't allow for those institutions to opt out of the new legislation and prohibit weapons from their buildings.

    "I believe that it is important that these public institutions have clear legal authority to ban weapons from their premises," he said in his letter."

    -- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...etoed/1778081/


    ...yes, they should have that right. They also should have the right to die because of that right to ban.

    It's their call.


    BTW, I also a having issues with this SLOW website...and I often get that "Website Not Available" message page, too. Not only from home on my Internet there, but also at a HotSpot (I'm at an IHOP presently) -- the site is slow or "not available.

    [see attached screen-capture of that message]

    Anyway, in other news, the NRA is going to have a news conference Friday (12-21-12) on the Newtown, CT, incident and subsequent call by the antis for more "gun control." Good luck on that given the anti-gun hysteria currently -- I don't think any antis will even listen, let alone be convinced that there ARE other options to MORE laws and/or banning anything.
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    Last edited by cloudcroft; 12-18-2012 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    working together

    perhaps now we can all work together to get a law that does not give away OC rights or privileges. Perhaps MCRGO will be willing to put their organization behind a better law.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  6. #6
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Well many here wanted the bill to die, you got your wish. Now we are again stuck with gun boards that can take as long as they want to issue permits with no legal recourse for them delaying, screwed up notifications with no accountability, so celebrate what you have won. As to lets work together on a new bil, I have to laugh, couldn't get a lot of you to work on the last one.

    Yes, I am bitter about this, a lot more than CC ina PFZ was lost in this bill. Now I am just waiting to see how long until they try to ban OC in Michigan all the way around.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

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  7. #7
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Now I am just waiting to see how long until they try to ban OC in Michigan all the way around.
    Well, we should certainly shout ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ at them instead of helping them along with incrementally compromising OC away, now shouldn't we? Last time I checked the OCDO and MOC mission statements, I didn't see anything there about "go along with criminalizing OC a little bit to gain some other gun rights".
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  8. #8
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Well, we should certainly shout ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ at them instead of helping them along with incrementally compromising OC away, now shouldn't we? Last time I checked the OCDO and MOC mission statements, I didn't see anything there about "go along with criminalizing OC a little bit to gain some other gun rights".
    Shout all you want, for myself, I would rather be able to CC than not be able to carry at all.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  9. #9
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Shout all you want, for myself, I would rather be able to CC than not be able to carry at all.
    Those that would give up a little OC liberty to gain CC security deserve neither.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  10. #10
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    SB59 Vetoed

    So you would rather be forced to not be able to carry at all?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: SB59 Vetoed

    What I think is good about this is we had a discussion that provided a good indication of where people stood in regards to OC, something that has been taken for granted for quite some time.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    So BF, how are you going to carry when they make OC illegal?
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: SB59 Vetoed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    So BF, how are you going to carry when they make OC illegal?
    Could you give me the bill number and where this legislation currently stands? I must have missed this. I'm surprised it's still out there as I thought they were done until the new legislature is seated.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Could you give me the bill number and where this legislation currently stands? I must have missed this. I'm surprised it's still out there as I thought they were done until the new legislature is seated.
    I am just looking ahead. Many here have already stated that by making Snyder aware of OC in PFZ's with a CPL that it is very likely he would now move to restrict OC further. or did I misread some people here? Think it won't happen? Lets wait and see.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  15. #15
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    That would be illegal.
    What would be illegal?
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  16. #16
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Well in the event that they do ban OC (which I really hope they don't even try to) you could always convert you r gun into a hood ornament.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    "In his veto letter sent to the Legislature, Snyder said the bill had a fatal loophole that didn't allow for those institutions to opt out of the new legislation and prohibit weapons from their buildings.
    Well this is at least being honest ... if he would have passed the bill; he could have then pushed to close this "loop hole" and the original bill would have been for naught...giving up something for nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    I am just looking ahead. Many here have already stated that by making Snyder aware of OC in PFZ's with a CPL that it is very likely he would now move to restrict OC further. or did I misread some people here? Think it won't happen? Lets wait and see.
    I'm not buying that line of BS where he claimed he wasn't aware of it. Granholm knew (OAG 7101 & 7113) at least in 2002, why wouldn't he? This is certainly at the bottom of my Things To Worry About List.

  19. #19
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    So you would rather be forced to not be able to carry at all?
    There's no evil on one's part if one's gun rights are forcibly taken away. One is evil, however, if one helps the anti-gunners take those rights away.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  20. #20
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    I am just looking ahead. Many here have already stated that by making Snyder aware of OC in PFZ's with a CPL that it is very likely he would now move to restrict OC further. or did I misread some people here? Think it won't happen? Lets wait and see.
    It won't happen if *all* gun owners stand *united* against *any* anti-gun parts of future bills. Of course, given that even Michigan Open Carry and some OC'ers went along with other gun orgs and supported partial OC criminalization, we can no longer take for granted that there are not foxes in the hen-house.

    What we have learned with the SB 59 episode is that, unfortunately, there are gun owners who will sell others down the river. And it's even to the point that some OC'ers and open carry organizations will sell out on some OC rights.

    What all true liberty-loving gun owners must do is stand strong, root out these foxes in the hen-house, and stand united.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  21. #21
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    It won't happen if *all* gun owners stand *united* against *any* anti-gun parts of future bills. Of course, given that even Michigan Open Carry and some OC'ers went along with other gun orgs and supported partial OC criminalization, we can no longer take for granted that there are not foxes in the hen-house.

    What we have learned with the SB 59 episode is that, unfortunately, there are gun owners who will sell others down the river. And it's even to the point that some OC'ers and open carry organizations will sell out on some OC rights.

    What all true liberty-loving gun owners must do is stand strong, root out these foxes in the hen-house, and stand united.

    +1!!!

    It is sickening that a supposed open carry rights organization supported a law that diminished those rights.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    I'm sure any of you who used the form approach to ask the Gov. to sign the bill received the same reply I did. I recently sent a reply to him.

    Dear Governor Snyder:

    While I did expect your veto, I can't express how disappointed I am that you did so. This was a chance to right a wrong that was done years ago when our "May issue" CPL became "Shall Issue." Before that happened, there were no "pistol free zones" for CPL holders. And I think, if you check the statistics, you'll find that as a group, we are way more law abiding than the average citizen, yet still, you prefer to punish us for what criminals do. I don't understand that at all.

    For my self, I have two sons in public school. Granted, I could open carry in their school, since I have a CPL. But I choose not to. Still, after events like what happened in Newtown, CT, I become very anxious when ever I have to leave my weapon in the car. If you had signed SB59 into law, that would not be the case. I could take the extra training that was written into the law (totally unnecessary in my opinion.) and not feel so unprotected in the process.

    As for eliminating Open carry completely? I think that is a very misguided idea, that will only cause you further trouble down the road. I sincerely hope you reconsider your position on that matter as well.

    Sincerely yours,
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  23. #23
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    It took me about 20 minutes to post the OP. The ability/speed to navigate on this site the last week or so has been about 10 times worse than dial up. I keep getting Website Not Available pages. I have Zero issues anywhere else. WTF?
    Having the same problem.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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