Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Conceal carry council member to push anti gun agenda.

  1. #1
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503

    Conceal carry council member to push anti gun agenda.

    Bruce Harrell is starting trouble. Tomarrow at 2pm at city hall.



    http://www.bruceharrell.org/

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    "No responses yet
    Comments are closed at this time."


    I guess they do not want any discussion prior to the event. How many times will they waste tax money by doing this again and again.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  3. #3
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503

    My talking points.....

    I'm going to try and make the meeting today. My talking points are these. One, less then 1% of gun violence is caused by Assault Weapons. I was in oaklan ca. last week, with every gun law you want. 115 murders to date. Huffinton post rated Washinton state as one of the 10 most safe states in the nation. I only get two minutes. Trying to come up with more.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    I wish I could go. Of course they do these things before the holidays when people are either on their way out of town or trying to prepare for vacations.

    I think your points are good. I'd look into stuff that deflates his arguments. He said "Data shows a direct, negative correlation between the rate of gun deaths and states that ban assault weapons and require handgun trigger locks and safes". i'd like to know where they get there data. Just like I was reading a article this morning about how gun bans in austrailia have totally eliminated mass shootings. They completly left out the part about how crime rates rose and continue to rise. They skew statistics to benifit the position.

    I tried to talk to him yesterday and all I could get was they think Seattle can do better and different things to eliminate these situations compared to what other cities have tried. But I have yet to hear new ideas that were not thought of and tried many places.

    They want Seattle to be able to enact gun training to be completed before a CPL is issued. So does that mean some cities will not have reciprocity with other cities? It goes hand in hand with replealing the suprememe court rule on independant city and county gun laws. It would be a nightmare to know if your breaking a law when you travel around the state.
    Last edited by SeattleWingsfan; 12-19-2012 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    449

    Head Scratchers...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I'm going to try and make the meeting today. My talking points are these. One, less then 1% of gun violence is caused by Assault Weapons. I was in oaklan ca. last week, with every gun law you want. 115 murders to date. Huffinton post rated Washinton state as one of the 10 most safe states in the nation. I only get two minutes. Trying to come up with more.
    -Police have no duty to protect, further they cannot be held liable for not protecting.
    -Does the City plan on taking responsiblity for my safety? (literally and figuratively)
    -How does the council man propose to take firearms from the bad guys, obviously LAC will comply.
    -When will he address mental health as part of Seattles plan? (the person not the inanimate object)

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    To add to whitney, have they fixed the law that allows a juvenile five felonies before any real action?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    To add to whitney, have they fixed the law that allows a juvenile five felonies before any real action?


    That is one thing they are working on. And really the only thing they are pushing that I can agree with.

  8. #8
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duvall, Washington
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I'm going to try and make the meeting today. My talking points are these. One, less then 1% of gun violence is caused by Assault Weapons. I was in oaklan ca. last week, with every gun law you want. 115 murders to date. Huffinton post rated Washinton state as one of the 10 most safe states in the nation. I only get two minutes. Trying to come up with more.
    Great job Eric. They blew you off but you got the point across.
    http://www.seattlechannel.org/viewer_live.asp
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    I didn't see the link to the coverage until after that section was over. Hopefully they will have it up to watch later.

    Thank you for going to the meeting and putting in some effort!

  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    It is always bad to make decisions based upon emotion and will lead to bigger mistakes, this is exactly what they are doing.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  11. #11
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    Great job Eric. They blew you off but you got the point across.
    http://www.seattlechannel.org/viewer_live.asp
    Thanks, I really appreciate the support. The video record of the meeting should be available in 24 to 48 hours. I'll post the link from this website as soon as it is available.



    http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos...?program=pscrt


    Thanks again for the support.

    I wrote all my ideals down this time and read from the paper. I only took a minute and a half of the two minutes alotted me, but I covered everything I wanted to say.

  12. #12
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duvall, Washington
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    Thanks, I really appreciate the support. The video record of the meeting should be available in 24 to 48 hours. I'll post the link from this website as soon as it is available.



    http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos...?program=pscrt


    Thanks again for the support.

    I wrote all my ideals down this time and read from the paper. I only took a minute and a half of the two minutes alotted me, but I covered everything I wanted to say.
    You did good. Major bullet points. Made it personnel. We need to have major talking points inside a 30 second conversation with our elected leaders. I have a few. I need to polish them up a bit. Maybe it is time to call into Carlson or Wlbur.
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188

  14. #14
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    Nice, the video is up. Great job, and you were the only public comment. It does look like Harrell didn't really care about what you had to say, but it will be interesting when the minutes are written up and you are the ONLY public comment. It shows there's no great out-pouring of public sentiment for new firearms regulations. Wonder if these minutes get published as text somewhere.

    Time to keep bombarding the city council with phone calls and emails. Everyone, go to it:
    http://www.seattle.gov/council/councilcontact.htm

  15. #15
    Regular Member Damiansar-15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mercer Island, WA
    Posts
    197

    Negative Correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    I wish I could go. Of course they do these things before the holidays when people are either on their way out of town or trying to prepare for vacations.

    I think your points are good. I'd look into stuff that deflates his arguments. He said "Data shows a direct, negative correlation between the rate of gun deaths and states that ban assault weapons and require handgun trigger locks and safes". i'd like to know where they get there data. Just like I was reading a article this morning about how gun bans in austrailia have totally eliminated mass shootings. They completly left out the part about how crime rates rose and continue to rise. They skew statistics to benifit the position.

    I tried to talk to him yesterday and all I could get was they think Seattle can do better and different things to eliminate these situations compared to what other cities have tried. But I have yet to hear new ideas that were not thought of and tried many places.

    They want Seattle to be able to enact gun training to be completed before a CPL is issued. So does that mean some cities will not have reciprocity with other cities? It goes hand in hand with replealing the suprememe court rule on independant city and county gun laws. It would be a nightmare to know if your breaking a law when you travel around the state.
    Doesn't the negative correlation reference defeat the argument that he is trying to make, e.g. death rates increase when weapon access decreases??? This is what negative correlation is, yes? Every Progressive Puke that cites stats on gun violence always throws in "gun, firearms, etc..." into the stat. Of course, if firearms are removed "firearm" death decreases, but they never note that violent crime, e.g. murders, rape, etc... goes up after gun bans, e.g. UK, Australia, etc... Cities like D.C. and Chicago have some of the highest gun restrictions in the country and they have trememdously high murder and violent crime rates when compared to other cities across the US... It should be about preventing all murder and violent crime and not just removing firearm deaths to replace them with another type of murder. Personally, I don't care if I am killed by a knife, gun, bomb, etc...I object to any way someone tries to kill me...

  16. #16
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503
    Did everyone see the article in the seattle times today.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...4_guns20m.html

    There's this table in there that shows that hand guns are used most of the time in mass shootings.

    And semi automatic rifles are used only 3.4% of the time.

    Also something I should have mentioned at the meeting, if the mother had locked the guns up in a combination safe and she alone knew the combo this mass shooting would not of happened.

    I hope the NRA mentions this at their press conference at 8:45am our time. Basic storage rule violation.
    Last edited by jsanchez; 12-21-2012 at 04:03 AM. Reason: left something out.

  17. #17
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    You voted for Obama?!


    But seriously good public testimony, too bad it's obvious Bruce doesn't care to hear it...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  18. #18
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    Better Obama who never signed a gun ban as an executive than a RINO who DID sign a gun ban in Massachusetts. However, Gary Johnson would have been better.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Better Obama who never signed a gun ban as an executive than a RINO who DID sign a gun ban in Massachusetts. However, Gary Johnson would have been better.
    Obama's Anti-gun Record

    Barack Obama supports handgun registration and licensing...
    I know that the NRA believes people should be unimpeded and unregulated on gun ownership. I disagree. I do not object to the lawful use and ownership of firearms, but I do think it is entirely it appropriate for the state to monitor it. Too many of these guns end up in the hands of criminals even though they were originally purchased by people who did not have a felony. I'll continue to be in favor of handgun law registration requirements and licensing requirements for training. [Chicago Defender, 7/5/01]
    --- http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck2/2007/12/
    and more...
    The package closes the Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card loopholes which resulted in the shooting out in Melrose Park. We're eliminating 17 specific assault weapons. There is no reason why anybody should need an assault weapon to protect themselves or their family,' Obama said. 'We're limiting handgun sales to one a month. We're calling for handgun registration. It's very hard right now to track whether or not a felon has turned in his weapons or if he has a FOID card because we don't know how many weapons he has purchased. [Chicago Defender, 2/20/01]
    --- http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck2/2007/12/
    Opposes civilian concealed carry
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    --- Mendell, David, "From Promise to Power" (2007), p. 251.
    I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations.
    --- Pittsburg Tribune-Review (April 2, 2008).
    [Obama] backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions."National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.
    --- http://www.icadp.org/page236.html (Citing David Mendel, Chicago Tribune, February 20, 2004)
    Opposes possession of most semi-automatic rifles
    Obama has stated the government needs to permanently reinstate an "assault weapons" ban.
    (Obama Calls for Permanent Assault Weapons Ban to Combat Inner-City Violence, Associated Press [via Fox News] [July 15, 2007] andhttp://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html)
    (McCain voted against the 1994 crime bill that contained an "assault weapons" ban [see the latter link].)
    Voted for a federal ban on most military surplus ammo
    Voted in 2005 to classify all Full Metal Jacket ammo in the following calibers as armor-piercing (since they are capable both of being fired from a handgun and of penetrating Kevlar bullet-resistant vests):

    • 223 Remington
    • 308 Winchester
    • Soviet 7.62x39

    Source: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00217
    Opposes protecting firearms manufacturers from lawsuits due to the misuse of their products.
    In July, 2005 Obama voted against S. 397 that passed by a wide margin (65-31) and became law in October, 2005. This act prohibits "civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others."
    Probably supports local handgun bans
    The campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he "believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional."
    --- http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/content/view/34/ (Citing James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07).
    (See http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=DC_v._Heller for background on the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, before the Supreme Court, that will decide the constitutionality of a civilian handgun ban in Washington, D.C.)Opposed the nomination of Supreme Court justices John G. Roberts Jr. and Samuel A. Alito Jr.
    Recent Supreme Court justices John G. Roberts Jr. and Samuel A. Alito Jr. were instrumental to a favorable Second Amendment ruling in the Heller case mentioned above. Obama voted against the nomination of Roberts and Alito. (McCain voted for the nomination of both justices.) (Roberts' roll call vote, Alito's roll call vote)


    Live Free or Die!

  20. #20
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    I am aware of his record and those statements, however, he has never signed any kind of a firearms ban at all as an executive, even when his party had control over the legislature. That bodes well for him not doing so.

    On the other hand, we know for sure that Romney likes to ban/regulate guns because he DID sign a bill into law when he was governor in MASS.

    Big difference.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I am aware of his record and those statements, however, he has never signed any kind of a firearms ban at all as an executive, even when his party had control over the legislature. That bodes well for him not doing so.

    On the other hand, we know for sure that Romney likes to ban/regulate guns because he DID sign a bill into law when he was governor in MASS.

    Big difference.
    No difference, Romney does not have any authority to sign any national ban. First straw man argument.

    O never had an opportunity to sign a ban the 2 years his party had control of both houses, so you can't give him credit for something that he choose not to do, because it simply does not exist. This is called a straw man argument.

    Political winds have changed recently... are you saying that O won't sign any gun ban/regulation if one makes it to the desk of the President?
    Live Free or Die!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    In my opinion, it's not really a straw man because the alternative to the current POTUS has signed gun bans voluntarily, while the sitting POTUS has never done so. If the voting percentage had been off by even a small amount things could have been much different.

    Also, the President can introduce bills and send them to Congress by having a Rep or Senator sponsor one for them, it happens all the time. I'm pretty sure there's enough anti-firearmm reps and sens out there that if Obama had wanted one he could have easily gotten one through Congress.

    In light of the recent massacre, I think RINO Romney would have signed a much more further-reaching gun ban and done it faster to have the appearances of "bi-partisanship" and in trade to get his tax agendas passed than any we might wind up with, if we wind up with any at all. That's the danger with RINOs, they are quick to put up all kinds of liberal social issues in trade/sacrifice as a way of getting their true agendas passed.

    Like I said above, Gary Johnson would have been the best of the 3, but as far as putting gun bans into place Romney was the worst.
    Last edited by Alpine; 12-22-2012 at 03:18 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Dolan Springs, AZ
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I am aware of his record and those statements, however, he has never signed any kind of a firearms ban at all as an executive, even when his party had control over the legislature. That bodes well for him not doing so.

    On the other hand, we know for sure that Romney likes to ban/regulate guns because he DID sign a bill into law when he was governor in MASS.

    Big difference.
    Interesting, so what would you call his prohibiting American Made historic Rifles from returning to American Soil?

    A Ban is a Ban.. and Obama has signed Firearms Bans when he banned the M1 Garand and Carbine from re-importation back to their Country of Origin.

    President Obama bans M1 Garand and Carbine rifles http://takebackbergenfield.com/did-y...arbine-rifles/

    Obama Bans over 100,000 rifles http://www.volokh.com/2010/08/18/oba...100000-rifles/

    Obama prohibits M1 Garand from returning to US http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-1889953/
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

  24. #24
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Alpine, you do know The Onion is a joke right?

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/oba...is-guns,30638/


    Gee I'm glad we have alpine around, with Obama in the oval office supporting no restrictions on guns and Inslee in Olympia as bulldog for preemption our gun rights have never been safer.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  25. #25
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Interesting, so what would you call his prohibiting American Made historic Rifles from returning to American Soil?

    A Ban is a Ban.. and Obama has signed Firearms Bans when he banned the M1 Garand and Carbine from re-importation back to their Country of Origin.

    President Obama bans M1 Garand and Carbine rifles http://takebackbergenfield.com/did-y...arbine-rifles/

    Obama Bans over 100,000 rifles http://www.volokh.com/2010/08/18/oba...100000-rifles/

    Obama prohibits M1 Garand from returning to US http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-1889953/


    I did not know about those, thanks for the link. I think it's really quite bizarre that Obama would ban this batch of antique rifles but leave much more powerful and higher-capacity modern rifles legal. It doesn't make much sense. Maybe this was a political thing to snub South Korea? Or maybe they thought the guns were so old they really WOULD cause accidents? I have no idea. I am fairly sure there are many more powerful rifles you can legally buy today than this, so it strikes me as quite weird. Unless I am wrong and those rifles are more powerful than anything a civilian can buy right now anywhere in the US?

    Give it a rest EMN. That's what happen when you back RINOs. I voted for Rossi and we all know he came closer to winning than McKenna by a longshot. In fact, Rossi actually DID win until Gargoyle stole it. Even Kirby Wilbur has accepted the fact that going with the RINO McKenna lead to reduced turnout in many of the rural counties. If they had gone with Rossi or a real conservative they would have beaten Inslee, and I would have voted for Rossi again.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •