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Thread: Snyder to ban OC!

  1. #1
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    Angry Snyder to ban OC!

    Friends, I am not alone in receiving our traitor governors email this morning. Today he revealed his true goal..TO BAN OC!

    MOC has failed the OCers of Michigan by agreeing to have our GOD GIVEN OC rights ripped from us. We need a LEADER! A CHAMPION who will lead the charge against this attempt to strip of us of our rights. From my lurking here, I see one man who stands most steadfast against these infringements.

    DanM! Will you lead us? Your words have shown great resolve. Will you form a coalition of open carriers and gun owners alike to fight this government overreach? Perhaps Boiledfrogs can help you?

    Let us TRUE OC ADVOCATES band together behind DanM!

    Please say you will take on this lofty responsibility, DanM. You can lead us where MOC has failed us. Do not fail us too!





    "Thank you for your recent correspondence sent to my office.

    Senate Bill 59 offered a number of wise and necessary reforms to Michigan's weapon laws. The bill provided for an enhanced Concealed Pistol License that would require additional training. It would streamline the Concealed Pistol License process by eliminating county gun boards and vesting issuing authority with the sheriff.

    More important, SB 59 looked at a feature of Michigan law that needs fixing - Michigan's open carry law. The law currently prohibits a concealed pistol license holder from carrying a concealed weapon in a "pistol-free zone," which includes a school, a day care center, a sport stadium, a bar, a church, a hospital, an entertainment facility, and a college classroom or dormitory. Ironically, current law does not prevent a concealed pistol license holder from openly carrying a pistol at these places.

    My original hope with Senate Bill 59 was to reach a compromise by prohibiting the open carry of pistols in the above-mentioned pistol-free zones in exchange for lifting the prohibition on the carrying of concealed weapons in these zones -- subject to the approval of the public or private property owners.

    The resulting bill only went part way in achieving that goal. The bill would allow private property owners to prohibit a person from carrying a concealed pistol on their private property. It permits certain universities and colleges to adopt an ordinance prohibiting the carrying of a concealed pistol. Unfortunately, the bill did not allow public schools, day care centers, or public hospitals to prohibit persons from carrying concealed weapons on their premises. For that reason, I have vetoed Senate Bill 59.

    I believe it is important that these public institutions have clear legal authority to ban weapons from their premises: Each is entrusted with the care of a vulnerable population and should have the authority to determine whether its mission would be enhanced by the addition of concealed weapons.

    This conversation is likely to continue over the coming months. I hope you'll continue to share your comments and concerns with my office.

    Sincerely,

    Rick Snyder
    Governor"

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    I & other's have been saying that this bill did away with open carry in PFZ's,
    most of the posters that have been on here yelling picking at posts to try and minimize our posts,
    WELL DON'T TRY AND SAY WE DID NOT TELL YOU THE TRUTH,
    THAT (MOC ORG) WAS TRADING OFF OPEN CARRY RIGHTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Exclamation

    .
    Last edited by mikestilly; 12-19-2012 at 04:50 PM.

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  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsnyder View Post
    Friends, I am not alone in receiving our traitor governors email this morning. Today he revealed his true goal..TO BAN OC!

    MOC has failed the OCers of Michigan by agreeing to have our GOD GIVEN OC rights ripped from us. We need a LEADER! A CHAMPION who will lead the charge against this attempt to strip of us of our rights. From my lurking here, I see one man who stands most steadfast against these infringements.

    DanM! Will you lead us? Your words have shown great resolve. Will you form a coalition of open carriers and gun owners alike to fight this government overreach? Perhaps Boiledfrogs can help you?

    Let us TRUE OC ADVOCATES band together behind DanM!

    Please say you will take on this lofty responsibility, DanM. You can lead us where MOC has failed us. Do not fail us too!





    "Thank you for your recent correspondence sent to my office.

    Senate Bill 59 offered a number of wise and necessary reforms to Michigan's weapon laws. The bill provided for an enhanced Concealed Pistol License that would require additional training. It would streamline the Concealed Pistol License process by eliminating county gun boards and vesting issuing authority with the sheriff.

    More important, SB 59 looked at a feature of Michigan law that needs fixing - Michigan's open carry law. The law currently prohibits a concealed pistol license holder from carrying a concealed weapon in a "pistol-free zone," which includes a school, a day care center, a sport stadium, a bar, a church, a hospital, an entertainment facility, and a college classroom or dormitory. Ironically, current law does not prevent a concealed pistol license holder from openly carrying a pistol at these places.

    My original hope with Senate Bill 59 was to reach a compromise by prohibiting the open carry of pistols in the above-mentioned pistol-free zones in exchange for lifting the prohibition on the carrying of concealed weapons in these zones -- subject to the approval of the public or private property owners.

    The resulting bill only went part way in achieving that goal. The bill would allow private property owners to prohibit a person from carrying a concealed pistol on their private property. It permits certain universities and colleges to adopt an ordinance prohibiting the carrying of a concealed pistol. Unfortunately, the bill did not allow public schools, day care centers, or public hospitals to prohibit persons from carrying concealed weapons on their premises. For that reason, I have vetoed Senate Bill 59.

    I believe it is important that these public institutions have clear legal authority to ban weapons from their premises: Each is entrusted with the care of a vulnerable population and should have the authority to determine whether its mission would be enhanced by the addition of concealed weapons.

    This conversation is likely to continue over the coming months. I hope you'll continue to share your comments and concerns with my office.

    Sincerely,

    Rick Snyder
    Governor"
    I love sarcasm.

    MOC warned that if this bill didn't pass that the "loophole" would be closed with no net benefit. But the gov. needs the support of the legislature, so the OC "loophole" is not dead.
    Last edited by Venator; 12-19-2012 at 07:01 PM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator

    OC loophole (fingers to big ! hehe !)

    The problem to begin with, is that synder wants to do away with Open Carry to begin with !!!!!!

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    OC loophole (fingers to big ! hehe !)

    The problem to begin with, is that synder wants to do away with Open Carry to begin with !!!!!!
    Yeah, but now he can with no improvements to the CPL law, no getting ride of gun boards, no getting money back for denials, and all the other things in the bill. That is the reality of this veto.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    Im not sure the legislators wish to follow Snyder into oblivion by making a bill that hurts gun owners at this time.
    Not gun owners, OCers, which is a small percentage of all gun owners in Michigan and many CPL holders think OC is a bad thing anyhow.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  9. #9
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    In my not so humble opinion... Snyder had every intention of getting rid of OC right from the get go... whether by using SB59's precedent of making OC in and of itself illegal (and a crime for the very first time) in just PFZ's as a foundation for future and broader OC restrictive legislation... or if that didn't work out... by flat out attacking OC itself. Either way... I believe that as far as Snyder was concerned.. OC itself was something he intended (and still intends) to get rid of.

    Personally I prefer he face the tougher road of attacking OC without any precedent to build on. And the recent tragedy left him with no other political recourse than to veto any bill that allowed guns in schools ... which means he had to cancel out the very avenue he hoped to have to attack OC in the future.

    If my beliefs are correct Snyder must be extremely pissed to have had to cancel out the best chance he had to use the precedent of OC being illegal to easily squash OC completely.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 12-19-2012 at 08:50 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsnyder View Post
    I believe it is important that these public institutions have clear legal authority to ban weapons from their premises: Each is entrusted with the care of a vulnerable population and should have the authority to determine whether its mission would be enhanced by the addition of concealed weapons.
    This paragraph is a joke. He is ***** footing around the fact that he likens us to mass murderers. If he didn't, and could so much as acknowledge that criminals by definition don't follow laws, he couldn't with a straight face explain why he is vetoing the bill.

    Though I am not sorry the bill failed, I do think it's offensive that he is at the very least by default saying that CPL holders are no more trust worthy than mass murderers.

  11. #11
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    a recall petition this time might pass.

    he has pissed off everybody in the state almost....gun owners and union thugs alike.

    send a peaceful message.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Why does this letter make mention of "michigans open carry law" when ther is no such thing? WE ALL KNOW that there is no law that prohibits open carry thus its legality. He is an enemy of liberty, so is Schuette. Michigans consitiution be damned. The ruling class knows whats best for us peasents.

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    The Governor made sure the only way to carry in K-12 schools and other places is to open carry - I say, Carry On!

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    I don't understand why he wanted only CC in PFZ's. I for one want to see exactally who is armed in these 'sensitive' places. Why would you not want to know that? It doesnt make sense only for the attempt to ban all carry in public owned buildings, 'cause you know that they ALL would have posted agaisnt ANY AND ALL CARRY in these places.

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    I am getting a little disheartened. I see DanM replied to another thread this evening yet hasn't stepped up here. For that matter I see a lot of talk about SB59...that bill is dead! Let it go! We are talking about a full frontal attack on OC by Snyder and NO ONE is stepping up to organize our defense!! What about you Michigander? You've been a vocal champion of our OC rights. Or you Mastiff, Boiledfrogs, Raggs? Will no one take the lead in this fight or are we doomed to fail yet again?

  16. #16
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    I don't understand why he wanted only CC in PFZ's.
    He didn't. At least in some. He wanted zero carry in schools. He compromised for CC in schools to get rid of OC in schools. This shooting seemed to change his mind. He signed RTW the same day. The news makes it sound like SB59 didn't hit his desk until after the CT school shooting. Not sure about exactly how all that works, but at least he or someone made sure he got the RTW bill on his desk the same day.
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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsnyder View Post
    I am getting a little disheartened. I see DanM replied to another thread this evening yet hasn't stepped up here. For that matter I see a lot of talk about SB59...that bill is dead! Let it go! We are talking about a full frontal attack on OC by Snyder and NO ONE is stepping up to organize our defense!! What about you Michigander? You've been a vocal champion of our OC rights. Or you Mastiff, Boiledfrogs, Raggs? Will no one take the lead in this fight or are we doomed to fail yet again?
    fsnyder I agree with you, we need an organized response to this challenge to our rights. I would suggest that the leader of this should be Phil Hoffmiester the Pres of MOC. He already has the experience lobbying in Lansing which is invaluable. I would also suggest that we as OCers as Michigander, DanM, Shadow Bear and DrTodd to also help with this as they are all passionate about OC. I will gladly do all I can to help as well but am not equiped at this time to take the lead on this. My hope would be that all OCers can put aside the division caused by sb59 and stand united against this threat.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    fsnyder I agree with you, we need an organized response to this challenge to our rights. I would suggest that the leader of this should be Phil Hoffmiester the Pres of MOC. He already has the experience lobbying in Lansing which is invaluable.
    DanM pointed out the Phil is NOT an OC advocate. How can he lead OCers now? What about Mike Stilly? He's made some impassioned statements, maybe he will do more than just talk.
    Last edited by fsnyder; 12-19-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsnyder View Post
    DanM pointed out the Phil is NOT an OC advocate. How can he lead OCers now? What about Mike Stilly? He's made some impassioned statements, maybe he will do more than just talk.
    I think that Phil is an OC advocate, though you may be right about people not getting behind him in this. DanM has also stated that I am not an OC Advocate as well so I would not be a suitable lead on this as well. I am willing to follow Phil's lead on this as we do need a point man. As for Mike Stilly I am not sure many MOC members would follow him for issues that occurred long before I came on the scene so you will need to ask others about it in PM. Whatever we decide to do I suggest we get organized quickly and prepare for the fight to come.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  20. #20
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Snyder to ban OC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    fsnyder I agree with you, we need an organized response to this challenge to our rights. I would suggest that the leader of this should be Phil Hoffmiester the Pres of MOC. He already has the experience lobbying in Lansing which is invaluable. I would also suggest that we as OCers as Michigander, DanM, Shadow Bear and DrTodd to also help with this as they are all passionate about OC. I will gladly do all I can to help as well but am not equiped at this time to take the lead on this. My hope would be that all OCers can put aside the division caused by sb59 and stand united against this threat.
    Thank you for the vote of confidence. It truly means a lot
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Thank you for the vote of confidence. It truly means a lot
    Phil we have not seen eye to eye on everything but you always treated me with respect and listened to my point of view when we talked, that means something to me.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  22. #22
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Mike Stillwater to lead the Open Carry movement in the capitol!

    Excelsior!

    Last edited by griffin; 12-20-2012 at 12:22 AM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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  23. #23
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    Griffin !

    Griffin ( CITE ) did he say that he was going to lead ? where did he say that at ?

    OR are you just picking/ sarcasm ? stirring the pot ? trolling for dollars !!!!! hehehe !!!!!!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Griffin ( CITE ) did he say that he was going to lead ? where did he say that at ?

    OR are you just picking/ sarcasm ? stirring the pot ? trolling for dollars !!!!! hehehe !!!!!!
    No, yes, yes yes,
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  25. #25
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    So DanM has all the time in the world to start threads calling people out, HE likes to decide WHO is an OC advocate but he does not want to step up. Seems a lot of people are more comfortable behind their keyboards slinging mud..Boiledfrogs, Mastiiff, Stilly, DanM.

    Is anyone going to put their hat in the ring to lead the fight against Snyder? Or is everyone going to rehash SB-59 and see how many times they can type "I told you so"? If that is the path we will take, OC will be a thing of the past. Thanks.

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