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Thread: A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

  1. #1
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

    Guys,
    The Progressive/Authoritarians will NEVER allow teachers to carry firearms in schools, with or without a concealed handgun permit. Most state laws prohibit even a holder of a CHP to come onto school property and federal law prohibits the carry of a firearm within a 1000 feet of a K-12 school without a state issued CHP.

    Here's a better answer. Let's turn to our "Constitutional Officers" to fix this problem of protecting our children from the crazies and use the same tactics that the Progressive/ Authoritarians use. They circumvent the US Constitution, we USE the power of our "Constitutional Officers" i.e. our local Sheriffs, to circumvent Progressive/Authoritarian "acts" and "laws". How do we circumvent their laws?

    We petition our local Sheriffs to Deputize faculty members at our K-12 schools, Junior Colleges and Universities, thus allowing them under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, to carry a concealed weapon in ALL of our schools, thus providing a REAL deterent and providing an IMMEDIATE RESPONSE to any threat to the lives of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN.

    What say you?
    Last edited by ODA 226; 12-19-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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    No thanks

    I'd be happy to hire professionals with experience and training.
    I really don't want to put any childs' life in the hands of someone who I already have serious issues with.

  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Considering government, home schooling is probably the only real way to protect them.
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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    Hire our unemployed and retired vets who want some part time work. I am sure they would love to help protect our children. I can't think of a better and more rewarding job for vets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Guys,
    The Progressive/Authoritarians will NEVER allow teachers to carry firearms in schools, with or without a concealed handgun permit. Most state laws prohibit even a holder of a CHP to come onto school property and federal law prohibits the carry of a firearm within a 1000 feet of a K-12 school without a state issued CHP.

    Here's a better answer. Let's turn to our "Constitutional Officers" to fix this problem of protecting our children from the crazies and use the same tactics that the Progressive/ Authoritarians use. They circumvent the US Constitution, we USE the power of our "Constitutional Officers" i.e. our local Sheriffs, to circumvent Progressive/Authoritarian "acts" and "laws". How do we circumvent their laws?

    We petition our local Sheriffs to Deputize faculty members at our K-12 schools, Junior Colleges and Universities, thus allowing them under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, to carry a concealed weapon in ALL of our schools, thus providing a REAL deterent and providing an IMMEDIATE RESPONSE to any threat to the lives of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN.

    What say you?
    This is a great idea, but there is only one problem: it places more power into the hands of "officials" and creates another special class.

    We need to work at the state level and get our state legislatures to rescind any law that prohibits the carry of firearms on K-12 school property; yes, in some states this will be easier than others. We already have a federal law that allows only license holders to carry on K-12 school property, so rescind any state legislation standing in the way and then anyone with a license/permit can defend our children. I know, the license/permit is a joke, but atleast we would have some that would then be able to defend our children's lives.

    It would be hard to get a sheriff or other Constitutional officer (if they even still exist in some states) to deputize certain people. Also, LEOSA states that "As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an EMPLOYEE of a governmental agency who..." I don't think a reserve officer would be considered an employee in most departments, because they are not a full or part-time officer/deputy, they are a reserve. Being a reserve, they are not employed by the agency, and they would not qualify for LEOSA protections.

    Also, the real killer is the following: "This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that: prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park." So, if there is a state statute that prohibits the carrying of firearms on K-12 school property, LEOSA does not apply. Most states make exceptions for officers of the state, but most states exclude reserve or special officers/deputies from this exception.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 12-19-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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    A lot depends on what state your in Wis. deputizeing some one would make them a LEO requireing them to attend police officer Minimum standards training thats over 500 hrs of training.

    Really no need for that amount of training.

    40 hrs of intense training with 8 hrs of refresher a couple of times of year would be plenty.

    The biggest thing would be finding people that would want to and commit themselves and would be willing to protect the school and students.

    Heck most people with out traning can tell when some one is trying to kill them.

    Be able to shoot when needed being willing to go towards gun fire instead away from it.

    Not useing your weapon improperly. Other wise good stable cititzens who have common sense.

    There are most likely a couple of those among the staff of any school. Not all staff would meet those requirements.

    But we would most likely just need a few in each school.
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    There is a school administrator (principal) in Texas that has told all his CPL holding teachers to arm themselves. It was on the national news last night. Sorry I can't provide a link.

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    571.030 - Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

    1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031.

    563.031 - Use of force in defense of persons. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5630000031.HTM
    We here in Missouri seem to have addressed this issue. The rub with this is that the "shall not apply" is different that "is a defense against." Not being a lawyer, or attorney, a member well versed in the legal linguistics is required to explain the difference. My layman's interpretation may be far off the mark.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt2636 View Post
    good idea but i would do it for free.we have volunteer firefighters why not have some sort of volunteer security force that works with leo? i find it a little offensive that people are trying to create a new security job off the deaths of people and kids. not only that the cost of going to school would sky rocket.
    So would I as I am retired. But this would also help out those vets who are unemployed and in need of money for living expenses. I find nothing offensive about it myself. It is something we should have had BEFORE this incident. As to the cost. I don't care if my taxes go up for this. The safety of the children over ride the cost in money in my opinion. In fact worrying about the cost would seem more offensive to those who have lost children in such incidents and future ones.
    Last edited by KYKevin; 12-21-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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    We all speak of liberty and freedom like we are the only ones that know the truth and the right path. But if we expect everyone to accept and follow our path and to accept our truth and want to force it upon them then that is no longer liberty or freedom. It is slavery. I believe in liberty for all. Regardless of their political views, religion, race, sex, etc.

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    Regular Member RGRTim's Avatar
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    Sounds good, take it a step farther and increase the pay for any teacher or administrator who signs on to be a guardian. kinda like jump pay, X $ per month that starts once their training and certs are complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGRTim View Post
    Sounds good, take it a step farther and increase the pay for any teacher or administrator who signs on to be a guardian. kinda like jump pay, X $ per month that starts once their training and certs are complete.
    This has been my position for some time now. It would be a win-win situation. Those who are willing would be rewarded for it, those who aren't wouldn't have to. And as I've said before in other posts, If you can't trust a teacher with a gun, why would you trust them with your child?

  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    A lot depends on what state your in Wis. deputizeing some one would make them a LEO requireing them to attend police officer Minimum standards training thats over 500 hrs of training.

    Really no need for that amount of training.

    40 hrs of intense training with 8 hrs of refresher a couple of times of year would be plenty.

    The biggest thing would be finding people that would want to and commit themselves and would be willing to protect the school and students.

    Heck most people with out traning can tell when some one is trying to kill them.

    Be able to shoot when needed being willing to go towards gun fire instead away from it.

    Not useing your weapon improperly. Other wise good stable cititzens who have common sense.

    There are most likely a couple of those among the staff of any school. Not all staff would meet those requirements.

    But we would most likely just need a few in each school.
    I disagree that any person needs any "extra" mandated training to be able to defend themselves and the children in their care. They are either qualified to carry in teh general public, or they are not. It is that simple. We are not talking about law enforcement here, we are talking abouyt bearing arms for our own personal self defence and the defense of others...See WA state Constitution 1/24

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    I'm surprised anyone would transfer the well being of their children to anyone other than themselves, least of all government employed teachers or government employed prison guards. Boggles the mind.

    Of course, if we had constitutionally constrained government (both federal & state), with the restraint coming in the form of minimal, voluntary sales taxes that kept said government small, then perhaps at least one parent could remain home to fulfill the duty of parenting while being able to survive on just one income... much like parents did in the past.

    Granted this means that four and five bedroom homes with three bathrooms, two car garages, big screen televisions and tons of other consumer goods might not be affordable... but think... it would be for the benefit of the children. If the welfare of the children is paramount in this nation as claimed...

    I digress... who am I kidding, most adults my age were raised spoiled and they've spawned to raise even more spoiled spawn who view guns an evil and therefore to be banned. Ain't karma a beech...

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    The original poster's idea is pretty good in my humble opinion. It deserves to be kicked around on forums across the nation, added to blog comments where relevant, discussed with your local sheriff, etc. Get the idea out there!

    Granted, it may not fly in some parts of the country, but that shouldn't diminish the fact that deputizing certain school faculty (and even others willing to provide volunteer security) isn't such a bad idea, really! It is an end-run around state legislative paralysis. Finally, implementation in a handful of jurisdictions would provide helpful precedent to counter the naysayers.

    The idea is spot-on and quite clever.

    Thanks to the OP for bringing it to our attention. The idea deserves a chance!
    Last edited by OC4me; 01-01-2013 at 03:55 AM.

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    A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Considering government, home schooling is probably the only real way to protect them.
    I agree. Unfortunately.

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