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Thread: A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

    Guys,

    I posted this in Hot Topics but wanted to post here also because Virginians are very "fast" on these types of issues...

    The Progressive/Authoritarians will NEVER allow teachers to carry firearms in schools, with or without a concealed handgun permit. Most state laws prohibit even a holder of a CHP to come onto school property and federal law prohibits the carry of a firearm within a 1000 feet of a K-12 school without a state issued CHP.

    Here's a better answer. Let's turn to our "Constitutional Officers" to fix this problem of protecting our children from the crazies and use the same tactics that the Progressive/ Authoritarians use. They circumvent the US Constitution, we USE the power of our "Constitutional Officers" i.e. our local Sheriffs, to circumvent Progressive/Authoritarian "acts" and "laws". How do we circumvent their laws?

    We petition our local Sheriffs to Deputize faculty members at our K-12 schools, Junior Colleges and Universities, thus allowing them under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, to carry a concealed weapon in ALL of our schools, thus providing a REAL deterent and providing an IMMEDIATE RESPONSE to any threat to the lives of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN.

    What say you?

    Craig
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Guys,

    I posted this in Hot Topics but wanted to post here also because Virginians are very "fast" on these types of issues...

    The Progressive/Authoritarians will NEVER allow teachers to carry firearms in schools, with or without a concealed handgun permit. Most state laws prohibit even a holder of a CHP to come onto school property and federal law prohibits the carry of a firearm within a 1000 feet of a K-12 school without a state issued CHP.

    Here's a better answer. Let's turn to our "Constitutional Officers" to fix this problem of protecting our children from the crazies and use the same tactics that the Progressive/ Authoritarians use. They circumvent the US Constitution, we USE the power of our "Constitutional Officers" i.e. our local Sheriffs, to circumvent Progressive/Authoritarian "acts" and "laws". How do we circumvent their laws?

    We petition our local Sheriffs to Deputize faculty members at our K-12 schools, Junior Colleges and Universities, thus allowing them under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, to carry a concealed weapon in ALL of our schools, thus providing a REAL deterent and providing an IMMEDIATE RESPONSE to any threat to the lives of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN.

    What say you?

    Craig
    Great idea Craig (seriously)

    Except for two things. The cops won't go for it and the eggheads won't go for it.

    But it's worth a try.

    Imo, the only realistic way to protect them right now is home school.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-19-2012 at 01:04 PM.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Pete,
    We don't need to convince ALL of the Sheriffs. We only need to convince a FEW of them. Then we announce that Sheriffs in the Commonwealth have Deputized SOME faculty members and that those faculty members ARE armed. It will have the same effect as "must issue CHP's". The bad guys will never know what schools are immediately "protected" by the faculty and THIS becomes the deterent.
    Craig
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Pete,
    We don't need to convince ALL of the Sheriffs. We only need to convince a FEW of them. Then we announce that Sheriffs in the Commonwealth have Deputized SOME faculty members and that those faculty members ARE armed. It will have the same effect as "must issue CHP's". The bad guys will never know what schools are immediately "protected" by the faculty and THIS becomes the deterent.
    Craig
    I'd say Danny Diggs would be the logical first choice.
    Don't the dollar a year Deputies have to go through the Academy? if so, maybe one of the faculty or staff was an MP.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-19-2012 at 01:18 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    Imo, the only realistic way to protect them right now is home school.
    That's the only way to protect them from all the lies they'll learn in public school too. I don't have any school-aged kids, but if I did, I'd never let them near a public school, and wouldn't have before Sandy Hook either.

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Pete,
    Nope. He can appoint anyone as a Deputy on the spot. In an emergency, A Sheriff's Deputy can deputize anyone on the spot. It's the beauty of being a Constitutional Officer.
    Craig
    Last edited by ODA 226; 12-19-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    That's the only way to protect them from all the lies they'll learn in public school too. I don't have any school-aged kids, but if I did, I'd never let them near a public school, and wouldn't have before Sandy Hook either.

    Roscoe
    We homeschool. My kids and I laughed that we teach shooting in our school. Also I dont have to worry about indoctrination. All problems are solved for me.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowesmobile View Post
    We homeschool. My kids and I laughed that we teach shooting in our school.
    That's Phys-Ed, Geometry, and Physics all in one, right?

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    That's Phys-Ed, Geometry, and Physics all in one, right?

    Roscoe
    Yes, yes and yes. Its amazing what you can pack into one class! LOL!

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Pete,
    Nope. He can appoint anyone as a Deputy on the spot. In an emergency, A Sheriff's Deputy can deputize anyone on the spot. It's the beauty of being a Constitutional Officer.
    Craig
    Good idea, but I don't see any sheriff doing this without establishing a training and certification program first. These persons would need to know the school systems plans for emergencies (they might be on duty when other things happen, like a fire) as well as be instructed in departmental tactical procedures to follow if confronted by an armed attacker.

    Plus, those selected must be willing.

    I'd be willing to volunteer, but not without such training. I imagine folks would be "buddied up" while on duty, and I'd like to know that my buddy is doing what I expect, especially if s/he's out of sight.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 12-19-2012 at 05:51 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Imo, the only realistic way to protect them right now is home school.
    I'll second that by a lot. I'll try not to get on too much a soapbox here, but I think that more homeschooling is the answer to a lot of social problems, including these violent episodes. I know that, unfortunately, homeschooling is not an option that is even be possible for many, but I believe that the most important aspect of homeschooling is increased parental involvement in their children's lives, and that is something that could be more widely implemented.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Great thread.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Pete,
    Nope. He can appoint anyone as a Deputy on the spot. In an emergency, A Sheriff's Deputy can deputize anyone on the spot. It's the beauty of being a Constitutional Officer.
    Craig
    But a Deputy can't fulfill many of the functions of an LEO until certified.

    Can he carry a gun? I did when I was Deputized and before going to the academy as a Civil Process Officer (1988) but I think that has changed.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    But a Deputy can't fulfill many of the functions of an LEO until certified.

    Can he carry a gun? I did when I was Deputized and before going to the academy as a Civil Process Officer (1988) but I think that has changed.
    Para:
    Nothing has changed. The Sheriff can Deputize anyone and grant special powers or limit powers to that individual.
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    What about a Special Conservator of the Peace appointed IAW § 19.2-13?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymo71 View Post
    What about a Special Conservator of the Peace appointed IAW § 19.2-13?
    That was discussed in the McDonnell thread keymo. ODA's plan avoids some of the pitfalls and roadblocks involved with SCP's.

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    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Got it. I will check it out. Thanks!

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowesmobile View Post
    Yes, yes and yes. Its amazing what you can pack into one class! LOL!
    Add reloading, and it gives you Chemistry and maybe even a little metal shop

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Pete,
    Nope. He can appoint anyone as a Deputy on the spot. In an emergency, A Sheriff's Deputy can deputize anyone on the spot. It's the beauty of being a Constitutional Officer.
    Craig
    You keep saying this, but the only thing I can find in the Code of Virginia is:

    §
    46.2-1310. Authority to deputize persons to direct traffic in certain circumstances.
    The chief of police of any county, city, or town, or the sheriff of any county which does not have a chief of police, may deputize persons over the age of eighteen years for the limited purpose of directing traffic in accordance with § 46.2-1309 during periods of heavy traffic or congestion. Such persons shall first receive training as the chief of police or sheriff determines necessary to fully acquaint such persons with the techniques of traffic control. They shall not have arrest powers.
    Any person who is deputized as provided in the foregoing provisions of this section, shall at all times while engaged in traffic control wear a distinctive uniform, safety vest, or a white reflectorized belt which crosses both the chest and back above the waist.
    (1973, c. 371, § 46.1-183.1; 1989, c. 727.)
    [emphasis added]

    Show me where a Sheriff can deputize someone to enforce the criminal code and I might become interested long enough to ask how you and any sheriff doing so plan to get around all the liability issues. (No, I do not see any version of immunity for someone who has not been through an academy. What I do see is a sheriff throwing away his soverign immunity based on wanton and reckless behavior. But, as I say, show me where I'm wrong.)

    Please don't try § 15.2-1603. Those deputies still must go through an academy. (Although you might try § 15.2-1705. I just do not see DCJS going along with it.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You keep saying this, but the only thing I can find in the Code of Virginia is:

    § [emphasis added]

    Show me where a Sheriff can deputize someone to enforce the criminal code and I might become interested long enough to ask how you and any sheriff doing so plan to get around all the liability issues. (No, I do not see any version of immunity for someone who has not been through an academy. What I do see is a sheriff throwing away his soverign immunity based on wanton and reckless behavior. But, as I say, show me where I'm wrong.)

    Please don't try § 15.2-1603. Those deputies still must go through an academy. (Although you might try
    . I just do not see DCJS going along with it.)

    stay safe.
    Back in the late 1980's when I went through the academy, we were told that in an emergency we could deputize anyone if that person's immediate assistance was critical to public safety. If it has changed, it has changed, but maybe User could clarify this?
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Back in the late 1980's when I went through the academy, we were told that in an emergency we could deputize anyone if that person's immediate assistance was critical to public safety. If it has changed, it has changed, but maybe User could clarify this?
    Since the title of skidmarks law quote is "46.2-1310. Authority to deputize persons to direct traffic in certain circumstances." I would think they are simply clarifying that while someone is deputized for "that" purpose they don't have arrest powers. User can chime in and clear up how common law etc would allow/disallow this.

    ODA 226, I just found this thread but great minds think alike. :-) I sent an email 12/21/12 to Sheriff Danny Diggs about this exact subject. I haven't heard back yet.

    Danny,
    With the school massacre in CT there is a wide conversation on how to prevent future atrocities.
    There are schools that allow teachers to carry like the one district in Texas. There are also states like Michigan that allow concealed permit holders to carry inside schools.
    Basically we need people to be armed to address any threat until law enforcement can arrive. With the guns free school zone act and current state law, teachers, administrators, parents, CHP holders can not bring a firearm into schools.
    The loophole exists that law enforcement personnel “while on the job” can carry inside schools and I believe I have seen your deputies carrying at high schools in the area.
    My solution would bring responsibility/rationality back to the local government/sheriff by deputizing willing participants to carry at school. This could mean principals, office staff, teachers or even parents that are at the school often. I would prefer it would be extended to CHP holders but that may be too big a chunk to chew right now.
    With a training program set up like the one you already have you could certify and deputize people such that while on school property (or field trips) they are allowed to carry. It could be renewed each school year or as often as needed. The goal would be to have at least one person (preferably more) at each school trained and armed each day school is in session.
    You already have the authority and permission according to state and federal law to do this. You wouldn’t have to get or ask any agency or person for permission. It would be a bold decision and obviously political. It would take courage and endurance to take all the heat from the media and Federal government, BUT it would protect our children.
    I haven’t heard of any school shootings in Michigan nor that Texas district. Israel has teachers armed since the 70’s and their terrorist attacks at school dropped off the map. The one school shooting I remember in Israel the terrorist was killed by a “student” after shooting 8 people. In America that body count would be very high. I hate the thought of the Sandy Hook principal being unarmed, charging the armed shooter.
    So consider my proposal. I and many others would be willing to be deputized. I am at all my daughters basketball/football games (cheerleader) and am at the school often. I admit a school administrator would be a better candidate though since they are there each day but coaches or parents would be better for after school activities.
    God bless and have a Merry CHRISTmas!
    <my name here>
    PS: We shook hands (again) at the Autozone protest last week.

    ETA: Fricking editor takes out all the $%^&*( formatting!
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 12-22-2012 at 02:54 PM.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    I've been browsing the Connecticut Forum to see what those folks think about these issues. I must say that Virginians aren't the only ones with a strong view toward 2A rights.

    Give this video a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZEQ2aQ5DGM

    I think I saw Ted Koppel (Night Line) seated in the background.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 12-23-2012 at 12:48 AM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    A Few Words About Ms Solution (AKA Dianne Feinstein)

    Check out this Audio. The woman sounds like Wayne LaPierre.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/bus...n-gun-control/
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Back in the late 1980's when I went through the academy, we were told that in an emergency we could deputize anyone if that person's immediate assistance was critical to public safety. If it has changed, it has changed, but maybe User could clarify this?
    Under the Common Law (and perhaps in the Code, but I'm too lazy to try to look it up) citizens have a duty to come to the aid of LEOs when the LEO requests such aid. My recollection of this is a LEO calling for assistance when they (the LEO) are getting the stuffing beat out of them by someone who does not want to become an arrestee. My further recollection is that if the LEO can ID those that refused to go to his aid they can be cited (it's a misdemeanor IIRC). Might this be what you are remembering?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I've been browsing the Connecticut Forum to see what those folks think about these issues. I must say that Virginians aren't the only ones with a strong view toward 2A rights.

    Give this video a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZEQ2aQ5DGM

    I think I saw Ted Koppel (Night Line) seated in the background.
    Where is the barfing smiley!? I listened to about half of this video and had trouble holding my lunch down.

    The liberals pushing more laws banning more guns and the superintendant saying our schools are safe......

    The token 2a supporters never get enough traction to defend their positions.

    I am amazed that such supposedly educated people, can't see that more liberty is a solution rather than more regulation and government control. The US senator was saying that he keeps hearing that "Everyone wants us to do something!". In this case anything they do will at best do nothing for the problem and at worst will create much worse problems.

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