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Thread: Bob Marshall would REQUIRE teachers to carry; McEachin "appalled"

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Bob Marshall would REQUIRE teachers to carry; McEachin "appalled"

    The Donald does not approve; I'm not sure I do either. Of course, Bob is not "pro-choice" ...

    Va. bill would order schools to arm teachers
    Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.

    Marshall (R-Prince William) requested that the bill be drafted in response to the mass shooting last week at a Connecticut elementary school.

    Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling (R) said through a staff member Wednesday that he does not favor requiring school employees to be armed.

    Marshall’s idea had some takers, however.

    “I would be very supportive of the idea that properly trained teachers could carry concealed firearms,” said Sen. Richard H. Black (R-Loudoun). “There's no way you’d have 20 innocent children gunned down if you had teachers who could help to defend themselves.”

    Philip Van Cleave, who heads the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said he would like to see the state eliminate the gun-free zones surrounding schools. As an interim step, he would support arming teachers and other staff.

    “We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permits.”

    The state lawyer tasked with drafting Marshall’s bill initially questioned whether the General Assembly had the authority to mandate that school boards arm staff, as opposed to simply allowing them to do so, according to a letter from the lawyer provided by Marshall.

    “The Constitution of Virginia is fairly unclear on the role of the school boards vis-à-vis the General Assembly with regard to the schools,” wrote Wenzel J. Cummings, staff attorney for the Virginia Division of Legislative Services. Under the Constitution, school boards have “primary responsibility and authority for effectuating the educational policy,” but their authority is “subject to the ultimate authority of the General Assembly,” Cummings wrote.

    ...

    Sen. A. Donald McEachin (D-Henrico), Democratic caucus chair, said in a statement: “I am appalled. There are more guns in America than people, and yet we have one of the highest rates of gun violence in the world. The Governor should know better than to suggest that arming citizens will solve anything. Maybe the Governor should focus on solutions that could actually have an impact, like banning the high-capacity magazines used to inflict horrific violence upon countless American cities, from Aurora to Newton.”

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Cooch "open to the idea"

    Hey, what about GMU?

    Cuccinelli open to armed teachers
    Republican gubernatorial candidate Ken Cuccinelli II signaled Wednesday that he was open to letting trained teachers carry guns in schools, while Democratic rival Terry McAuliffe called for an armed officer at every elementary campus that wants one.

    Cuccinelli, the state’s attorney general, said through a spokesman that he was “open to the discussion” about allowing teachers and other staff to carry weapons.

    “[A]s the governor indicated, examining other options — such as arming school resource officers and other properly trained personnel who choose to carry firearms — should be part of any discussion in a review of safety procedures at Virginia schools,” said Cuccinelli spokesman Brian J. Gottstein.

    “The AG is open to the discussion,” Gottstein added. “Who ultimately fits the description of ‘properly trained personnel who choose to carry firearms’ would be considered in the school safety review process.”
    Last edited by Repeater; 12-19-2012 at 07:07 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post

    Gonna be a long short session



    We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permits.”

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Philip Van Cleave, who heads the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said he would like to see the state eliminate the gun-free zones surrounding schools. As an interim step, he would support arming teachers and other staff.

    “We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permi

    The background check to obtain a CHP is a vetting process, which should entitle the bearer to carry on school grounds. Sorry, Peter.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 12-19-2012 at 09:59 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Philip Van Cleave, who heads the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said he would like to see the state eliminate the gun-free zones surrounding schools. As an interim step, he would support arming teachers and other staff.

    “We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permi

    The background check to obtain a CHP is a vetting process, which should entitle the bearer to carry on school grounds. Sorry, Peter.
    I'm not trying to convince you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    That's typical P4P though and hopefully the Committee members will understand that is NOT the opinion of all gun owners. Just chippers.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I haven't seen the text of the bill yet, but the news story I heard earlier today specifically stated that the law would require each jurisdiction to have a trained person for each school, but leave it to each jurisdiction's discretion as to whether to require them to actually carry.

    Need to see the bill.

    TFred

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Saw an interview with, Louise Lucas I think. She was absolutely apopleptic. I think she may have a stroke before this is all over.

    Here's her in print comments, but the video is so much more entertaining.

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...rginia-schools

    "That is insanity," Lucas said. "Straight up insanity. We do not want guns in our schools."

    Lucas pointed out this year's repealing of the "buy only one gun a month" law.
    "Now teachers with guns? Now we want to make them police officers? Come on, give me a break," Lucas told WAVY.com. "They are already overworked, underpaid and now we want them to carry a firearm? That is the dumbest statement made by a governor though this entire process."

    Marshall said the only way to stop an attacker is to reciprocate, avoiding the wait for first responders.

    "When there's a problem, what does [Lucas] do? She calls 911," Marshall said. "Why does she call 911? To get a guy with a gun there, or a woman with a gun there."

    Lucas will submit a bill that closes what she calls the "no background check at gun show" loophole.

    "You have all these nut cases buying a boat load of guns right here in Virginia," Lucas said.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Saw an interview with, Louise Lucas I think. She was absolutely apopleptic. I think she may have a stroke before this is all over.

    Here's her in print comments, but the video is so much more entertaining.

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...rginia-schools
    Yep...a very long...short session

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Saw an interview with, Louise Lucas I think. She was absolutely apopleptic. I think she may have a stroke before this is all over.
    Stop teasing me.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Stop teasing me.
    For some reason I though she was dead. She ran out of a Committee meeting last year because of a family emergency. Iwas thinking she had a traffic accident and died. Either I was wrong or somebody forgot to replace the garlic on her grave.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Saw an interview with, Louise Lucas I think. She was absolutely apopleptic. I think she may have a stroke before this is all over.

    Here's her in print comments, but the video is so much more entertaining.

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...rginia-schools
    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Stop teasing me.
    The video of livid Louise Lucus is right there in the link: she has a fit at approx. 1min 30 sec into the video.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Somebody needs to explain to her that when police respond to the school they have guns. And usually get there AFTER the damage is done. She would prefer I guess that the teachers beg fruitlessly for their lives.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    The Donald does not approve; I'm not sure I do either. Of course, Bob is not "pro-choice" ...

    Va. bill would order schools to arm teachers
    Do you have Donald's email address?
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Do you have Donald's email address?
    Not a published address but do have his "contact" link which is an email.

    http://www.donaldmceachin.com/contact
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Bob came and spoke to us at tonight's VCDL meeting.

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    Delegate Marshall was at the VCDL meeting this evening. I did not get that teachers would be forced to be armed. I took away that the proposed bill would require schools to designate school staff who volunteered and received training similar to police.

    I don't like this idea. Too stringent. Any school staff who possess a CHP should be allowed to CC. If they want to designate certain individuals from among that group for special training, fine. But, adults don't give up their right to self-defense just because they work in a school.

    I would defer to experienced legislative strategy that first did the designees and then later all CHPd school staff.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Defend our children whenever and wherever required.

    Ask those opposed, "Why does Israel not have shootings in schools?"
    Learn from the failures AND the successes of others. So endith the First Lesson.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Defend our children whenever and wherever required.

    Ask those opposed, "Why does Israel not have shootings in schools?"
    Learn from the failures AND the successes of others. So endith the First Lesson.
    The NRA just finished their press conference Of course they didn't address Obama's rants but they announced an NRA safe Schools Program to train people in school security.

    At least they didn't sell us down the river.

    The head of the program is a former Homeland Security Administrator and head of The DEA.
    That's as bad a bringing in a convicted Pedophile in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    ...

    Any school staff who possess a CHP should be allowed to CC. If they want to designate certain individuals from among that group for special training, fine. But, adults don't give up their right to self-defense just because they work in a school.

    ...
    I agree. I was compelled to contact my state and federal legislators this week to express a like opinion.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    The background check to obtain a CHP is a vetting process, which should entitle the bearer to carry on school grounds. Sorry, Peter.
    Fail....
    Cho passed a background check.....how many serial killers would have passed a background check?????
    Many folks get background checks for their jobs that are more extensive than the one to own firearms/ get a chp do they get an automatic pass?
    Having a clean background check isn't an indicator of future behavior...



    We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permits.”
    Very troubling statement for me.......
    Last edited by Marco; 12-21-2012 at 07:19 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    [QUOTE=Marco;1869256]Fail....
    Cho passed a background check.....how many serial killers would have passed a background check?????
    Many folks get background checks for their jobs that are more extensive than the one to own firearms/ get a chp do they get an automatic pass?
    Having a clean background check isn't an indicator of future behavior...

    While keeping in mind that CHP's and backround checks are not the solution, regardless of the depth of the backround check. The whole CHP paradigm is an infringement of the basic human right of self-defense.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Fail....

    Very troubling statement for me.......
    Yep!
    Someone's gonna get coal and switches.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Fail....
    Cho passed a background check.....how many serial killers would have passed a background check?????
    Many folks get background checks for their jobs that are more extensive than the one to own firearms/ get a chp do they get an automatic pass?
    Having a clean background check isn't an indicator of future behavior...





    Very troubling statement for me.......
    Fail? Seems a bit of a generalization. The CHP B/G check is a vetting process, but it's not a crystal ball. In Cho's case, you can't check what's not in the record.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I think he means business this year!


    //
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-21-2012 at 10:50 PM.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Fail? Seems a bit of a generalization. The CHP B/G check is a vetting process, but it's not a crystal ball. In Cho's case, you can't check what's not in the record.
    Again, so should everyone that has a clean background check be allowed?


    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While keeping in mind that CHP's and backround checks are not the solution, regardless of the depth of the backround check. The whole CHP paradigm is an infringement of the basic human right of self-defense.
    I'm glad someone understands.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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